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+-- Thread: Shoulder and cheek same (/showthread.php?tid=7311599)
Shoulder and cheek same - GEB - 07-03-2016
When cutting tenons, why can’t the shoulder and cheek cuts be the same depth?
Bill
Re: Shoulder and cheek same - Redman - 07-03-2016
Not quite sure what you're meaning here. The cuts setting the length of the tenon would be the same on all sides. The cuts setting the removing the waste on the four sides would be deep enough to do just that. Said another way four cuts would be the same and two each of the other four cuts would be the same. Of course all that depends on the type tenon you are cutting.
Re: Shoulder and cheek same - Wild Turkey - 07-03-2016
I've wondered the same thing watching videos -- they often will cut the cheeks to a different depth than the shoulders.
Seems like an extra step to me.
Re: Shoulder and cheek same - GEB - 07-03-2016
First, definitions. Mine anyhow. Borrowing conventional nomenclature from a 2x4, a finished tenon on it will have 4 surfaces parallel with the 2x4. What I call the cheek will be the “flat” surface. The shoulder will be on the “edge”. Some would call what stops the rail from going further into the mortise, structural shoulder and cosmetic shoulder. Whatever!!
I cut tenons on a table saw with a dado blade. Why can’t I leave the blade at the same height roll the rail for each cut?
Re: Shoulder and cheek same - GEB - 07-03-2016
After some thought, not my long suit, for a 3/4 " rail having the rail tight to the top of the post/leg, that 3/16" of material left on the top of the leg after the mortise might want to kick out, not to mention challenge its structural integrity.
Re: Shoulder and cheek same - mike4244 - 07-03-2016
GEB said:
When cutting tenons, why can’t the shoulder and cheek cuts be the same depth?
Bill
The stock thickness of the mortise determines the thickness of the tenon. The cheek cuts are usually thinner than the shoulder cuts for that reason.Example, a stretcher is 3" wide and 3/4" thick. A single tenon may have a width (shoulder) 2" and 1/2" thick. The mortise would have 1/8" walls. This is an extreme example but I think you may understand it better now.
Sometimes wide tenons are divided up into several small ones. Then the cheek and shoulder can be the same with spaces between them. With the above example you could make the tenons 1/2 x1/2 x length.Then this could give you two tenons 1/4" from each end of the mortise and a 1/2" gap in the middle.
mike
Re: Shoulder and cheek same - AspenII - 07-03-2016
If I'm understanding your question the cheeks and shoulders could be the same depth but the cheeks will probably be much rougher than one would want.
Re: Shoulder and cheek same - JGrout - 07-03-2016
this is one good reason setting the tenon lower strengthens the joint exponentially
and in the top drawing above the haunch fills a groove cut through which simplifies the groove adds some glue surface area and fills the gap
Re: Shoulder and cheek same - Redman - 07-03-2016
AspenII said:
If I'm understanding your question the cheeks and shoulders could be the same depth but the cheeks will probably be much rougher than one would want.
Using a dado set this would be true. Using a saw blade then minimum 6 cuts, more for other type joints but the surfaces will be much smoother. Voice of experience here.
Re: Shoulder and cheek same - johndi - 07-03-2016
I guess they could be. I think the reason mortises are laid out that way is to leave enough stock above the tenon so as not to blow out the small piece of wood left on the leg or rail.
If you lay out your mortises that way you could do it and save a set up, but that would usually leave a very small section of stock.