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+-- Thread: What happened to Wenzolff and Sons? (/showthread.php?tid=7341500)
RE: What happened to Wenzolff and Sons? - Handplanesandmore - 08-18-2018
(08-18-2018, 02:48 PM)Greg Jones Wrote: The same vendor took a similar approach about a (missing) feature of an earlier product.
Exactly and no one there said one single word about the missing "point." And later the vendor released a video telling people (the suckers in my opinion) how THEY could get the tool to work properly! I don't know how these blog followers and customers can be so blind. They are not kindergarten kids for sure.
Simon
RE: What happened to Wenzolff and Sons? - TraditionalToolworks - 08-18-2018
(08-18-2018, 12:43 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Just got done placing the "My way or the Highway" A-hole on the Ignore list.....IF I could, I would block him....like I can do on Lumberjocks.
Ok, I don't follow 'mill Creep, so took me a few minutes to even figure out who you were as there's no bandit over yonder...
You buckeyes are a rough crowd, heh?
I think it's good to understand a few things. Pete does know saws and mostly Disston, IMO, in fact in many ways he is a specialist on all things Disston. But one problem was the manufacturers didn't keep good enough records, varied on product, and often made custom order products. There was a time in America when a manufactured valued have a business relationship with their customers, you think that was any different with Disston? (self insertion of sarcasm)
This is to say, products varied all the time, nothing was ever cast into stone then any more than it is now. Go to Lie-Nielsen and ask if it's possible to modify an existing tool or have a custom made one to order, and I can pretty much guarantee that Tom will take care of you. Probably charge a small fee, but won't be a lot, in my experience.
In fact, TLN will go one step further than Pete, they will make you a progressive saw, or a different TPI, more than Independence did because nobody was doing progressive filing at that time. And more so, today Pete appears to be a Foley believer, and I'm just going to have to disagree with him on that...I know the Foley equipment, it's a bunch of rube goldbergish designed garage built tools for sharpening and re-cutting saw teeth. This equipment is rare/scarce these days, and it's very finicky to setup...so EVEN if it was a better way to sharpen, it's difficult to get "tuned up" to work, and to stay working correctly...NOTE: That reminds me, BAY AREA FOLKS, I have a Foley filer and would give it away for FREE if anyone wants to pick it up in Morgan Hill, CA. I'd love to get it out of my shed down there...I digress...most people would spend half their time sharpening a saw. For Pete it's different, he sells the saw at an exorbitant prices...and Pete did a really smart things with the Disstonian Institute, because having that site is golden, there are like 80%-90% of the used saws are Disstons, people will always be searching out information, many will see his refurbished saws and buy them. Him and Patrick Leach did get started just as the Internet was rising and capitalized off it, touche` to them, IMO.
Pete's claim to fame is the slotted back. Disston never innovated or improved, unless something so simple as a thumb hole was to be considered brilliant...
but Pete did actually innovate, much to his credit. Other than that, Pete sells refurbished Disston handsaws at about 2x-3x what one would cost if you bought one off ebay and refurbished it yourself. For many that's a great service, so not trying to dis what he does, I'm just not his type of customer.I see many people over on 'mill creep licking his anal tract, so no use in tossing sand into the mixture...it's not worth butting heads, IMO. He probably even sells a saw or two to some aging person who picked woodworking as a hobby and has too much money in their pocket...a number of those folks around...
Alan
RE: What happened to Wenzolff and Sons? - TraditionalToolworks - 08-18-2018
(08-18-2018, 02:30 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: One active forum does not tell you the whole picture of the general decline of forums.Understood, that was in fact why I was curious what happened here at Woodnet?
Your point I believe is that forums are becoming less used in general, correct? Because I completely agree and point this out to people all the time. YouTube and InstaGram are 2 of the more popular, and FaceBook of course...but Google has already started rolling over for the U.S. Government, as has FaceBook. It is probably unavoidable, but I still try to keep the Internet free, old habits are hard to break...
(08-18-2018, 02:30 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: FOG is active, too. But look at Family Woodworking, WC, an Aust. forum, and a few others, they have threads or posts that may be 10% of what they used to be 5 or 10 years ago. Even Woodnet is declining. People move on, have other interests, have other means to stay connected, etc.However my point was that there are still people interested in woodworking that would use forums, because there are still posts to this day. I agree and tell people that this new frontier is upon us, and that goes for social media in general...you think there was a lot of know-it-alls on forums? Get ready for social media...LOL
(08-18-2018, 02:30 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: New messages is one thing, but if participation is limited to the same group (that you can count in two hands or four) then you are not getting fresh ideas and experience.I don't see it like that, in fact, if you are one of those that participate it is VERY useful, otherwise you wouldn't see people like Jack still hanging around here. It is far less useful if you don't participate, and rely on other people's problems to solve your own, so there is value for anyone to participate.
BTW, that reminds me, what happend to Todd? He was one of the few blacksmiths that hung out here...he was quite a character, his posts are something I miss...
EDIT: I think I found him, but he hasn't been around in 10 years. Says 2009 is his last time here, I'm not sure but think this must be him but none of his posts came up....maybe Woodnet had a melt down and lost it's data at some point...that's never happened on the Internet before...
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Alan
EDIT: Simon, I should add, have you checked out Ello? I only have a few things there, I've removed some content...but never used it too much. I rather like the idea of the no-ad policy. It is mostly artists, designers, makers, craftsmen, etc...I just started to post there again a day or two ago...my user is "liber".
RE: What happened to Wenzolff and Sons? - TraditionalToolworks - 08-18-2018
(08-18-2018, 12:14 PM)hbmcc Wrote: I couldn't agree with this statement more. However, usually, bloggers tend to attract insular admirers, and forums sparing partners.Bruce,
I don't know about that, but I did point out how people that are not good with people skills have often been better publishing work that doesn't require they interact with others. Smalzer is on of the best examples of that. Smalzer writes amazing articles and explains things well, and as long as he doesn't need to interface with people he's good to go.
I don't know if Smalzer uses YouTube, but I don't see the new frontier as being friendly to him. Talk about interfacing with people...Smalzer would need to prohibit comments at all in order to survive...
Cheers,
Alan
RE: What happened to Wenzolff and Sons? - TraditionalToolworks - 08-18-2018
(08-18-2018, 02:54 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: I don't know how these blog followers and customers can be so blind. They are not kindergarten kids for sure.Simon,
Simple. Many of them don't have any opinion as they know so little about what they are doing. Those people resort to a well known person, much like him to guides them.
The area I detest on the Internet is where you have some guy that doesn't know WTF he's doing, but showing you how to do it the first time he's doing it himself. One of the best examples is a guy's channel called Wranglerstar on YouTube. Even though he will get better over time, I don't want to learn from a guy that approaches his crafting and sharing it while he does it to be what I want to follow. As an example, do you want to learn saw sharpening from a guy that is doing it for the first time? Will you buy the same jig he does to sharpen your saws? Will they be a sponsor of his channel because he has a large following? Can you believe his sincerity?
I get it, he likes to share, but he quit his day job to become a "YouTube" creator and expects to be paid to do so...advertising and sponsors are a huge issue on YT as all of you know...
You have to weed those people out. There are plenty of genuine people on the new frontier, but it's harder to weed them out. Listen carefully because most of them will tell you things that raised red flags...helping you to weed them out!
And rest assured that I will be that annoying person to the next guy all the same...
Alan
RE: What happened to Wenzolff and Sons? - Handplanesandmore - 08-18-2018
Alan,
Simple. Many of them don't have any opinion as they know so little about what they are doing. Those people resort to a well known person, much like him to guides them.
- Yes, some of them sound like newbies looking for guidance but others are paying top dollars for those boutique tools, and they idolize the blogger no matter what rubbish they see! I thought (mistakenly apparently) only preteens and teens exhibit that kind of behavior. They actually embolden that vendor to be arrogant...like charging lots of dollars for something that needed a customer to finish the last bit before it could be used. It was like selling you a car with tires in the trunk, and you had to mount them yourself before your could drive the car away, after paying a premium price for the car.
As an example, do you want to learn saw sharpening from a guy that is doing it for the first time? Will you buy the same jig he does to sharpen your saws? Will they be a sponsor of his channel because he has a large following? Can you believe his sincerity?
- This reminds me of a discussion on another forum about those cowboy youtube woodworking videos in which some said even we could learn from those first-timers or people who equated lousy workmanship with craftsmanship. I would rather waste my time making my own mistakes than watching those garbage presentations.
Simon
RE: What happened to Wenzolff and Sons? - bandit571 - 08-18-2018
And...why is it, whenever handsaws come up...there is always one in the crowd that claims to have sharpened 1000s of saws....and know every saw out there.
A woe to any that say anything contrary to what he speaks as dogma... 
...Including selling those junky saw files of his.... 
RE: What happened to Wenzolff and Sons? - Handplanesandmore - 08-18-2018
(08-15-2018, 06:55 AM)AHill Wrote: Usually, when Smalser went crazy was when some newbie asserted he knew more about the craft than Bob. I'm not excusing his approach to dressing down the newbie. There are ways to be instructive and helpful without being disrespectful. Derek Cohen is one good example of that. I don't recall where Bob ever came across as saying "my way is the only right way," which happens every once-in-awhile on this (and other) forums.
One iconic woodworker was well known for his cabinet work: James Krenov. Little did people know that when he taught at Redwoods, he was well known to his students that "his way is the only right way." He displayed the same conviction even when he was invited overseas to do short programs. May be he was brought up (woodworking wise) that way and found that, given his success, his way should be followed as the right way.
Simon
RE: What happened to Wenzolff and Sons? - TGW - 08-19-2018
Most elderly craftsmen who actually do work tend to develop that attitude over the years. His way is the only correct way in his oppinion. Probably it is the only correct way to him because he can do it faster and better his way than others with less experience can do their ways. Also because it fits the sort of work he is doing.
Now with that said I think you should stop bashing Bob Smalser and other good craftsmen out there.
Sorting among the oldtimer's wisdom and picking what fits yourself under your conditions is one of the things you must learn to enable you to learn anything at all.
RE: What happened to Wenzolff and Sons? - Timberwolf - 08-19-2018
(08-19-2018, 12:37 AM)TGW Wrote: Most elderly craftsmen who actually do work tend to develop that attitude over the years. His way is the only correct way in his oppinion. Probably it is the only correct way to him because he can do it faster and better his way than others with less experience can do their ways. Also because it fits the sort of work he is doing...............
Now with that said I think you should stop bashing Bob Smalser and other good craftsmen out there.
Sorting among the oldtimer's wisdom and picking what fits yourself under your conditions is one of the things you must learn to enable you to learn anything at all.
Welcome back !!!! Good to see you posting again !!!!