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+-- Thread: A Project for the Boss (/showthread.php?tid=7342235)
RE: A Project for the Boss - Arlin Eastman - 10-10-2018
(10-06-2018, 06:03 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Because things shift a bit when clamped up....
How do you fix that? How would I keep it square?
RE: A Project for the Boss - bandit571 - 10-10-2018
(10-10-2018, 12:29 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: How do you fix that? How would I keep it square?
Best way to "fix" it, is to not get in a big hurry during the glue up
......I tend to get flustered, and start rushing things... 
use a square while clamping things together....hammer to "adjust" as needed..
..then watch as you tighten the clamps...as things do move... 
RE: A Project for the Boss - AHill - 10-10-2018
Best way to fix drawers that aren't square is to make the drawer box slightly oversized to begin with, then trim to fit the opening. Same for panels and drawer fronts. I took a class from Mario Rodriguez several years ago and he said he spent way more time fitting drawers than making them. I don't understand clamping causing things to get out of square. Before I clamp, I dry fit, and things don't seem to be a problem when it comes time for the real deal.
RE: A Project for the Boss - Handplanesandmore - 10-10-2018
(10-10-2018, 12:29 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: How do you fix that? How would I keep it square?
Carcass glue-up must be approached in a systematic manner. A large case is seldom clamped and glued up square on the first try. Dry fitting is the #1 "fix" if I may.
Do not use a square to check squareness unless you are talking about a box, not a big one. During dry fitting, measure the diagonals to check the squareness. If it is out of square, adjust the clamps' positions to get it to square (Google to find the technique). Hammering will get you dents, not squareness if it is a cabinet size glue-up. If you can't square it dry, check the joinery -- are things cut square? Dovetails properly seated? Edges flushed? Are you working on a flat assembly surface?
After you are happy with the dry fitting, make a note of the clamps, etc. and place them aside in an orderly fashion so you will retrieve and use them as they were used during dry fitting, and then get your glue (with long assembly time). One more thing: if the back panel is rabbeted, before the dry-fit is removed, cut a panel to fit the back opening. The panel will help square up the carcass since it is cut when the carcass is dry fit square.
Get someone to help if it is a two-person job when you have a lot of glue surfaces to cover. Break down the job whenever possible, such as doing the carcass, rest, before working on the drawers.
People say finishing done badly ruins your hardwork. No! You can always plane or sand everything to restart the finishing process. A bad glue-up will ruin your hardwork. Your doors could show gaps or uneven reveals, your drawers, if already cut, could bind. You wish you could start over!
So, patience and preparation go hand in hand when you do a complex glue-up. I have learned my way up: never ever rush a glue-up and GET HELP where needed.
Simon
RE: A Project for the Boss - Handplanesandmore - 10-10-2018
(10-10-2018, 03:41 PM)AHill Wrote: I don't understand clamping causing things to get out of square.
When you clamp up a large case, its weight can cause the assembly to rack if it is clamped in a stand-up position. If the case is clamped with its front or back lying flat on a bench, the assembly could be clamped out of wind if the bench top is not dead flat. All these and other clamping issues may not happen to a small glue-up like a box or drawer.
Overclamping/un-even clamping (using different types of clamps) can also cause squaring issues to carcass glue-up. But a more common reason is that the joinery part is not done with precision and accuracy to start with, and when the case is clamped, the joinery issues show up.
Simon
RE: A Project for the Boss - bandit571 - 10-10-2018
Since none of the above posters were there to "help out".....
Biggest problem...was the door glue ups.....They were also made for a tight fit..but when adjusted AFTER the glue up was done, to correct one stile being out, gaps appear at the top of the door.....second door was done a lot slower, and more attention was paid while clamping. It was also gap free.
Drawer front was a bit lop-sided....right side being a bit smaller, height-wise.....drawer side was a 1/16" too wide on the left side. IF I planed the front and that side to match...drawer front would have been too narrow, height-wise. A filler strip of the same wood, tapered to match the gap, was used.
Unlike others, I never have claimed to be perfect....
RE: A Project for the Boss - Handplanesandmore - 10-10-2018
(10-10-2018, 04:26 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Since none of the above posters were there to "help out".....
Where was the Boss?!
I did a sideboard, just under 50" x 30" x 20" with a shelf and doors. Both the weight and size would be a problem for me to work alone. I could handle the dry-fitting part, but not if glue was applied. I got a helper (not a woodworker) to help spread glue, align mating members AND hold the other end of the board/clamp. A perfect build? Yes by my spec. (buy not necessarily by other people's).
Simon
RE: A Project for the Boss - mound - 10-10-2018
(10-10-2018, 04:26 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Unlike others, I never have claimed to be perfect....
I defy anybody anywhere to show a project where there weren't mistakes made.. you simply chose to bare all and share it.
perfection is an illusion. kudos to you for not pretending otherwise!
RE: A Project for the Boss - Handplanesandmore - 10-10-2018
(10-10-2018, 06:01 PM)mound Wrote: I defy anybody anywhere to show a project where there weren't mistakes made.. you simply chose to bare all and share it.
perfection is an illusion. kudos to you for not pretending otherwise!
There is a difference between making mistakes and repeating the same mistakes.
If you make the same out-of-square mistakes projects after projects, you should find out why as well as how to keep them from happening.
As a woodworker, you have the option of trying to get it right the first time or by not trying...and getting it wrong and then trying to fix it afterwards. It is up to the individuals to pick the option.
It is not about perfection. If I screwed up a build after I tried my best, I would learn from it and explore how I could do it better. This is HOW we become a better woodworker. Many visitors come to this forum to try to become better woodworkers, and they, too, prefer not to repeat mistakes. Most of them are not pretending or going after perfection.
If I hand cut a dovetail, I aim for a gap-free joint; it is not about perfection. If I fail in any one joint (I will fix it), I will try to do better in my next cut. After all these years, I now cut dovetails I am happy with, very happy with, in fact. But had I tried not to improve them when I had cut them poorly, I would still be cutting dovetails with huge gaps.
Simon
RE: A Project for the Boss - mound - 10-10-2018
(10-10-2018, 06:22 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: There is a difference between making mistakes and repeating the same mistakes.
If you make the same out-of-square mistakes projects after projects, you should find out why as well as how to keep them from happening.
As a woodworker, you have the option of trying to get it right the first time or by not trying...and getting it wrong and then trying to fix it afterwards. It is up to the individuals to pick the option.
It is not about perfection. If I screwed up a build after I tried my best, I would learn from it and explore how I could do it better. This is HOW we become a better woodworker. Many visitors come to this forum to try to become better woodworkers, and they, too, prefer not to repeat mistakes. Most of them are not pretending or going after perfection.
Simon
Completely agree.
I don't know (or care) if Bandit 'repeats the same mistakes' or not. Honestly I haven't observed his work closely enough to know the difference.
And I don't know him either. But I see a humble, older gentleman (I assume) who is conceiving and building useful and attractive projects for his homestead faster than I can even lay plans for a single project. Using all (mostly) hand-tools no-less and documenting and describing the process in an utterly organic, and almost "sweet" way, for us to all learn from. Bravo.. So some stuff falls out of square and he fixes it. Despite all my best intentions, that still happens to me in my own work. And I don't always learn from it the first time! (does anybody?) Difference is I never share my mistakes with the inner-webs, but I'm glad he does. That's what we can all learn from.
It saddens me to hear that he gets such flack on other forums.