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+-- Thread: CT's Most Excellent Workbench Adventure (/showthread.php?tid=3058880)
Re: CT's Most Excellent Workbench Adventure - Crooked Tail - 09-24-2007
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'll give you more info for those who asked:
I did just try the extra weight thing. I just laid a piece of ply across the stretchers and threw some pavers, sandbags, and random garage debris onto it. Didn't make any difference.
The bench feels really solid if you push or pull on it from either of the back two corners. However, I can feel it twist some if I push on the left front corner (by the front vise). This is really bad because I plan on using the front vise to hold boards for resawing with a frame saw. So when I do that, it is A LOT of pushing / pulling on that corner. It tweaks a little when I push from the tailvise corner toward the front vise. This isn't nearly as pronounced, but it's still bad, because of course that is where I plane.
I wonder now if the weight of the two vises on the front have sort of thrown it out of kilter. The apron on the front is also a little bit thicker / heavier than the rear apron, so that makes it somewhat unbalanced even before vises are attached.
The top is not (for now) lag bolted to the base. The base has two 1" diameter dowels sticking up about 1.25", which fit into holes on the bottom of the top. The weight of the top holds it in place. I guess the next thing I should do is bolt the top to the base.
The stretchers are M&T'd into the legs. There is only one bolt at each end of the stretchers. When I get home I'll check to make sure the bolts are tight. The M&Ts where the stretchers meet are snug, but not as tight as I'd like.
A couple of the M&Ts between the legs and the feet are even worse. I'm going to blame it on going right from PH to Doug Fir.
I shouldn't have chopped the mortises right to the line, because the tenons seemed to compress a lot. You can even see in one of the pics of the face vise where I "cheated" and added some screws through the bottom mortise into the tenon. 
I'm so torn... I am not happy with it as it is, but $200 would be fun to spend on a LV shoulder plane, or new chisels... but don't worry, if I remake the base, I will buy a couple real mortise chisels first!
Re: CT's Most Excellent Workbench Adventure - Skip J. - 09-25-2007
Crooked Tail said:
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'll give you more info for those who asked:I did just try the extra weight thing. I just laid a piece of ply across the stretchers and threw some pavers, sandbags, and random garage debris onto it. Didn't make any difference. I'm so torn... I am not happy with it as it is, but $200 would be fun to spend on a LV shoulder plane, or new chisels... but don't worry, if I remake the base, I will buy a couple real mortise chisels first!
Sorry... but better to know now don't you think????
Good ideas here, keep on truckin'.....
Re: CT's Most Excellent Workbench Adventure - FordPrefect - 09-25-2007
It sounds like bolting a snuggly fitting cabinet would stiffen up your bench a lot. Plus, leave you with the money to buy some nice tools. When I built my bench I didn't cut mortises and tenons for the stretchers. I drilled in two 3/4" dowels to keep the stretcher from spinning and keep any future weight off the bolt. Part of my reasoning was pure laziness, but the other part was the thinking that if the stretcher wasn't quite stable enough I could quite easily remove it and scoop the end grain so that only the top 1" and bottom 1" actually contact the leg. Then bolt the sucker tight to add stability.
That solution may still work for you with the current base, but I think if you do the cab you won't need to take anything apart.
Re: CT's Most Excellent Workbench Adventure - Denny Lawson - 09-25-2007
CT
My opinion FWIW, the trestle can be fixed. I chose to use upper and lower stretchers on mine and it is very solid. I don't think the wood species had a lot to do with that. If its racking than either the stretchers aren't solid or the top is not secure.
If you really just hate the thing, you should rebuild it. You are going to look at it every day. I wouldn't save it though, because if it was me I'd always look at it and think..."I shoulda just kept it.."
if you decide to build a new trestle, take the "old one" out back and beat it into a pile of kindling with a big hammer. its a very rewarding way to provide closure to a project that didn't quite turn out as expected.
Re: CT's Most Excellent Workbench Adventure - Guest - 09-25-2007
CT:
I agree with those who suggest trying to fix your present base before you commit to building a new one. It sounds to me like the shoulders of your strecher tenons aren't mating well with the legs. The shoulders provide all the strength and the resistance to wracking and if they don't mate perfectly flush and square with the legs, you get a loose joint and wracking. I apologize if I'm being too simplistic, but I think that's where you should look.
I built my bench with only a bottom stretcher and it is rock solid. I used 3/4 X 5" stub tenons and two bolts per joint. I think the two bolts gives me a little extra protection againse the joint loosneing.
I also added a drawer box (carcass) the fits very snugly between the legs. I had to loosen the bolts to get it in and then tightened them to bring the legs snug up against the carcass. I'm sure that gives the banch additional anti-wracking strength. By the way, my top is not attached to the base at all. The weight keeps it in position so it adds nothing to the strength of the base structure.
I've posted a picture of my bench below that shows the stretcher joints and the drawer box, for what it's worth. I think you can fix your base using either or both of these ideas without having to rebuild the whole thing.
Hank
Re: CT's Most Excellent Workbench Adventure - timgren - 09-25-2007
I wouldn't rebuild the tressle, I would finish it to match.
Wood species dependent, A hard maple color look can be achieved if you us Belhen's water based grain filler (natural) with a few drops of transtint amber additive. Seal with 1 lb blond shellac. Then use a single coat of pickeling stain. (Behlens is good... Olympic also has good results). Let this fully cure, then lighty sand with 400 serrated AL. Then topcoat. An oil will bring our the ambers (which will match an oiled maple). A waterborne finish will retain the pre-finish color which will match unfinished maple.
I think the racking is mainly due to the stretchers being set too low. If you are going to use a single set of strechers, they need to be tall (6-8" at least), and placed close to the center of the trestle. OR, like Hank pictured above, a double set of bolts.
Since you are planning for a tool cabinet, I would make a 3" lower stretcher, and a 5" upper so you have enough space in between. Once you have both sets installed, you will notice a very significant difference in stability. Added weight won't resolve racking. It may in fact add to the momentum. Of course securing the top to the sleds will help a little, but not much.
What you don't want to do it use a tool cabinet as a stretcher. It will be pushed and pulled out of shape in no time.
Let us know how it works out.
Tim
Re: CT's Most Excellent Workbench Adventure - BlueMaxx - 09-25-2007
Hank, I notice on the bottom of your legs some level mounts. I have though abit about that and am curious what you ended up using?
Re: CT's Most Excellent Workbench Adventure - Guest - 09-25-2007
Skippy,
I don't want to hijack CT's wonderful thread, but I'll respond to your question with apoliogies to CT.
My concrete workshop floor is anything but level I decided to use some heavy duty machine levelers on my bench. I ordered them from MSC Industrial Supply (www.mscdirect). They have large (3" I think) neoprene pads that swivel to allow for the uneven floor and 6"X 1/2 X 13 threaded studs, each is rated for 1,000 Lbs. Many of the posts I'd read on woodworking sites recommended drilling a hole and the leg and inserting a threaded rod connector to accept the levelers. I didn't like that idea because the connectors have, at best, about 1 square inch of bearing surface each to take the weight of my bench. I had a local machine shop turn down some 1 3/8" X 3" X 3" steel plate to make a stub tenon 1" X 1 1/4" that was drilled and tapped for the leveller studs. This left a 3/8"X 3" X 3" pad for the leg to rest on. I drilled a 1 1/4" hole in the bottom of the leg for the threaded tenon and continued it with a 5/8" bit to allow clearance for the leveler stud. It works great. It's bomb proof and allows me about 4" of vertical height adjustment for my bench. Here are several photos:
Hank
Re: CT's Most Excellent Workbench Adventure - Skip J. - 09-25-2007
Hank Knight in SC said:
Skippy,
I don't want to hijack CT's wonderful thread, but I'll respond to your question with apoliogies to CT.
Hank
Hey Hank;
I think you're actually responding to Slippy here, but I do like your photos and description of your foot solution, very heavy duty!!!!!
Re: CT's Most Excellent Workbench Adventure - FordPrefect - 09-25-2007
I think CT needs a refresher on what an ugly base actually looks like.
I think she may be suffering from PurpleheartVersusDouglasFiritus, it's not as rare as it sounds. But the cure is to know that firry legs are not that uncommon