+- Woodnet Forums (https://forums.woodnet.net)
+-- Thread: Woodworking in the woodworking forum (/showthread.php?tid=7348632)
RE: Woodworking in the woodworking forum - ®smpr_fi_mac® - 06-06-2019
Simon, I'm one of the longest-running members here. As an old man on a few forums, I can tell you that your last post is completely incorrect.
No offense intended.
Moderators make or break a forum.
RE: Woodworking in the woodworking forum - Vince - 06-06-2019
(06-06-2019, 11:07 AM)K. L McReynolds Wrote: Early in the life of WoodNet, there was no Off Topic forum(There also were no turning/finishing forums). Posting non serious material(with the heading of OT or Off Topic in the title) infuriated 'serious' woodworkers.
Having been around during that part of the changes in WoodNet, I can assure you the current influx of OT posts is minimal.
Two things. First, the Mods here are volunteers. Long hours, lots of complaints, and spammers make the job pretty thankless. How do I know that? I was the first member Mod and set up the procedure. At one point, there were two Mods per forum and keeping up was difficult. I often spent five to eight hours a day moderating, dealing with problems, and cleaning up. How many folks are willing to do that, so it is difficult to find volunteers.
Second. Cannot please everyone. Makes no difference what is done, someone is mad, unsatisfied, or complaining. Sometimes those folks have a point and their comments are used for change. That is why the OT, Turning, and Finishing Forums are here.
Participation is down. Here and at other sites. However, several woodworking websites no longer exist. Some charge for membership. It takes a great deal of behind the scene work and some money to operate a successful website. The owners see fit to spend those funds and members keep the wheels greased.
WoodNet has survived for a couple of reasons. First, it is free. Second, enough members care enough to spend the time doing the necessary work to keep it operating. Is it wild and wooly? Not close to the way it used to be. Death threats, lawsuits, and coordinated spamming happened often.
That pretty much sums it up right there. I would add that the person who started this forum back when it was just a dial-up bulletin board (Gordon) always felt that it shouldn't be heavily moderated. I think part of that stemmed from his distaste for censorship and part of it was simply because moderating a forum of this size can easily become a full-time job, and he already had one of those.
If it wasn't for the hard work of all the member-moderators, the plug would have been pulled on this forum years ago. There really is a LOT of stuff they have to deal with, that most folks are never aware of. It definitely is a quieter place than it was in the early days.
RE: Woodworking in the woodworking forum - FrankAtl - 06-06-2019
(06-06-2019, 03:43 PM)Vince Wrote: That pretty much sums it up right there. I would add that the person who started this forum back when it was just a dial-up bulletin board (Gordon) always felt that it shouldn't be heavily moderated. I think part of that stemmed from his distaste for censorship and part of it was simply because moderating a forum of this size can easily become a full-time job, and he already had one of those.
If it wasn't for the hard work of all the member-moderators, the plug would have been pulled on this forum years ago. There really is a LOT of stuff they have to deal with, that most folks are never aware of. It definitely is a quieter place than it was in the early days.
I for one, appreciate all the work the moderators do. I remember some of the arguments and some people get very, let's say passionate, about their opinions. You'd think a bunch of adult woodworkers could be civil to one another but that doesn't always happen. I try and mind my manners on here but it wasn't always that way. I've said some things and then looked at it again later on and thought "what was I thinking". I try my best to stay out of the arguments and just enjoy the comradery these days. I love woodworking and do it for the relaxation and to help me maintain my sanity. The last thing I need is to participate in an argument on a woodworking forum.
Maybe if all of us that are left just try to contribute more we'll get the activity level back up. I have done a couple of projects lately that I could have easily done a Build Thread about but I didn't even think about it. We have a very talented group of people here so let's do what we can to maintain this forum and keep it interesting.
RE: Woodworking in the woodworking forum - fredhargis - 06-06-2019
Vince, we don't say it enough (or at all)...but we do appreciate the work you and all the moderators (past and present) have done and still do to keep this going.
RE: Woodworking in the woodworking forum - Handplanesandmore - 06-06-2019
(06-06-2019, 02:58 PM)®smpr_fi_mac® Wrote: Simon, I'm one of the longest-running members here. As an old man on a few forums, I can tell you that your last post is completely incorrect.
No offense intended.
Moderators make or break a forum.
I think you misunderstood my key point. If you re-read it, you will see I was saying if moderation really does not make any difference, why there should be any moderation.
Simon
RE: Woodworking in the woodworking forum - ®smpr_fi_mac® - 06-06-2019
Moderating does make sense.
The fact that not everybody will be happy all the time does not mean that moderating isn't needed.
No, I read it correctly.
Moderating makes sense.
RE: Woodworking in the woodworking forum - Handplanesandmore - 06-06-2019
(06-06-2019, 05:36 PM)®smpr_fi_mac® Wrote: Moderating does make sense.
The fact that not everybody will be happy all the time does not mean that moderating isn't needed.
No, I read it correctly.
Moderating makes sense.
Who said moderating does not make sense? We're talking about making a difference.
You said you read it correctly, then you must have missed this completely:
"Second. Cannot please everyone. Makes no difference what is done..."
Simon
RE: Woodworking in the woodworking forum - K. L. McReynolds - 06-06-2019
Good versus bad moderation makes a difference.
In my experience, bad moderation makes more people leave.
Better or good moderation simply makes fewer people leave.
That holds true for any website of which I know.
However, membership participation and attitude dictate moderation. As Vince mentioned, Gordon(the Father of WoodNet) had a unique idea for a woodworking website.
Example: the first rules were:
Be Nice.
Stay on Topic
Have Fun
That was it. Period.
It always flabbergasted Gordon people could not follow those simple guidelines. His vision was for a self moderated site where folks with a common interest could freely exchange ideas and knowledge with little to no moderation(remember, the folks involved from August Home--the original owners---had full time jobs and AH did not see fit to spend more money than necessary to run the site).
Early moderation basically consisted of a member seeing something needing attention and PMing one of the Admin folks---4 as I recall. As the site grew in popularity, the forum began to attract unwanted attention--spammers, shady businesses, and troublemakers.
So, procedure began changing. Because it had to change to work. It still works. It may still need changes periodically.
RE: Woodworking in the woodworking forum - hbmcc - 06-06-2019
(06-06-2019, 06:19 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: Who said moderating does not make sense? We're talking about making a difference.
You said you read it correctly, then you must have missed this completely:
"Second. Cannot please everyone. Makes no difference what is done..."
Simon
®smpr_fi_mac® Wrote: [url=https://www.forums.woodnet.net/showthread.php?pid=7755473#pid7755473][/url]Simon, I'm one of the longest-running members here. As an old man on a few forums, I can tell you that your last post is completely incorrect.
No offense intended.
Moderators make or break a forum.
Will you two quit twisting the other's panties! You sound worse than 3 year-olds.
But ... it sure is funny to read....
I bet you both are older than me and I'm missing my 50th Class Reunion.Now you can come after me..... Dare 'ya.
Ps. A perfect example of why the forums don't mix topics....
RE: Woodworking in the woodworking forum - RichK - 06-07-2019
About 20 yrs ago I spoke with Franz Klaus at a woodworking show. I asked if he was active in any online forums. He said no and that there is no substitute for actually working wood. I get that, but for a non-professional like me, forums like woodnet were a valuable learning tool. It was great to bounce ideas off people and to share my own learnings. My participation dropped off when so many comments, IMO, turned negative. I deal with enough of that in my day job. I miss the old interactions and the contributions of people like Howard Acheson who was a fountain of valuable information.