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+-- Thread: [update] recessed lighting wiring without access (/showthread.php?tid=7349503)
RE: recessed lighting wiring without access - Snipe Hunter - 07-30-2019
I've done quite a few of these. The biggest issue is getting the wiring from a switch to the ceiling. But anything is possible. You'll have to cut some holes.
I use a 2ft long half inch drill bit and a 4" hole saw. I cut the 4" hole between each joist (and to cut the holes for the recessed LED lights) and use the 2ft x 1/2" drill to poke a hoes through the joists. Then I use a long, rigid wire to fish a pull string through all the joists. One joist, one hole at a time. It's tedious but it works. I pull the romex through the holes in the joist with the pull string. In the holes dedicated for lights, I drop about 18" of extra wire hanging below the sheetrock to give me plenty of wire to work with.
For the lamps across the room, I just drill a 4" hole and fish the wireacross the room with a fish tape between the joists.
Those lamps shown above have push connectors that will connect three 14/2 romex wires. One id the line power, one goes to the next light and the other one can go across the room to a lamp between the same joists.
These are the exact same lights we put in.
Very pleasing light, dimmable. More than happy with the end result.
You'll need to plug the holes in the ceiling. Use the same 4" hole saw in a drill press and cut the plugs out of scrap 1/2" sheetrock. Cut them into 6" squares. One for each plug. Set the depth on your drill press so the hole saw stops just short of going through the paper. Mark the center of the square and cut your plug. Score the back side paper on the sheetrock plugs and break it away from the plug. This will leave a paper flange. Butter the edge of the plug with joint compound and butter around the inside of the hole and stick it in the hole. Use a 4 or 6" mud knife and press the paper flange into the mod and pull the excess out from the center. The mud will hold it in place. Don't over work it or squeeze out too much mud or it won't stay in place or the paper will wrinkle. Once it's dry, feather out with compound and sand.
I can take a couple pics of what I'm talking about if you want or if my description stinks.
I've got 11 of these things in our new kitchen done this way. I pulled wire from an existing box where a hanging lamp was for some. Two sets are on new switches where I had to open up the sheetrock on the wall, near the ceiling above the switch to feed wire into the ceiling.
RE: recessed lighting wiring without access - EdL - 07-30-2019
If yer gonna cut the chit out of the upstairs floor might as well add a ceiling fan too....
Ed
RE: recessed lighting wiring without access - Robert Adams - 07-30-2019
(07-30-2019, 03:42 PM)mound Wrote: wow, a 110* beam angle - that seems very large.. what height ceilings have you used them in? I'm looking at a 16x13 living room with 8' ceilings.
I haven't put them in anything over 10'. The lower the ceiling the more lights you need but I will say these cover more area than the 6" regular cans with led trims I have in the kitchen. I may at some point pull all those old cans out and replace them with the new style.
I have 8 of the wet rated ones in the new master bathroom 4 around the vent fan in the walk in shower.(finally got her convinced to not have a tub in the master and to have a big walk in shower with a seat and wall panel showerheads) The only difference between wet and damp rated with these fixtures is the wet ones have an O-ring seal on the connector which doesn't matter anyway as it is not subject to moisture... The spacing is tight in the bathroom and over the shower but they will be perfect with a dimmer. Always better to have too much light and use a dimmer than not enough.
The next plan is to put them in our living room. It is around 15x20 or so with ceilings at 8' 1" (old house don't ask). Right now there is a ceiling fan with lights. I rarely use the lights because they are always shining in your eyes. Lights hanging down in the middle of the room is about the worst placement you can get... The TV is on the middle of the long wall. I plan to put one on either side of the TV on one dimmer and then 3 on the other side which will be above and behind the couch and chair and on their own dimmer.
Since I am finally getting around to installing lights in our house I will probably do 4 3" units in each bedroom and ditch the lights on the ceiling fans. It cleans up the room makes it feel bigger and gives even light around the room.
Once all the remodeling is done I plan to add a whole bunch of insulation in the attic. I figured 100 bags of cellulose will do it including the garage. That will give me about R60 or a bit more. May do fiber blow in if I can get a good price. Faster install and less bags to deal with and cleaner.
RE: recessed lighting wiring without access - Robert Adams - 07-30-2019
(07-30-2019, 02:52 PM)joe1086 Wrote: I've done a couple bathrooms and taken out strips of ply to reroute plumbing. I'll confirm the glue put down on the joists in my 1985 built house was pretty tenacious. After cutting the ply across the joists I found that cutting the smaller sections midway between the joists made it easier to wiggle/lever the sections out.
Well I would much rather go through a second floor than do what I have to do and that is crawl around an attic with a low slope roof and framing made from ancient doug fir that gives splinters if you look at it... Running screws in that lumber gives any brand impact driver a run for it's money. New lumber is balsa wood in comparison. Oh and that attic is blazing hot as in 130*+ in the afternoon. (see other posts where I hate living here...)
RE: recessed lighting wiring without access - Stwood_ - 07-30-2019
(07-30-2019, 07:02 PM)Snipe Hunter Wrote: You'll need to plug the holes in the ceiling. Use the same 4" hole saw in a drill press and cut the plugs out of scrap 1/2" sheetrock. Cut them into 6" squares. One for each plug. Set the depth on your drill press so the hole saw stops just short of going through the paper. Mark the center of the square and cut your plug. Score the back side paper on the sheetrock plugs and break it away from the plug. This will leave a paper flange. Butter the edge of the plug with joint compound and butter around the inside of the hole and stick it in the hole. Use a 4 or 6" mud knife and press the paper flange into the mod and pull the excess out from the center. The mud will hold it in place. Don't over work it or squeeze out too much mud or it won't stay in place or the paper will wrinkle. Once it's dry, feather out with compound and sand.That's what we've known/used as a California drywall patch.
.
RE: recessed lighting wiring without access - fixtureman - 07-31-2019
(07-30-2019, 11:20 PM)Stwood_ Wrote: That's what we've known/used as a California drywall patch.
We call that a jew patch
RE: recessed lighting wiring without access - brnhornt - 07-31-2019
(07-30-2019, 07:02 PM)Snipe Hunter Wrote: You'll need to plug the holes in the ceiling. Use the same 4" hole saw in a drill press and cut the plugs out of scrap 1/2" sheetrock. Cut them into 6" squares. One for each plug. Set the depth on your drill press so the hole saw stops just short of going through the paper. Mark the center of the square and cut your plug. Score the back side paper on the sheetrock plugs and break it away from the plug. This will leave a paper flange. Butter the edge of the plug with joint compound and butter around the inside of the hole and stick it in the hole. Use a 4 or 6" mud knife and press the paper flange into the mud and pull the excess out from the center. The mud will hold it in place. Don't over work it or squeeze out too much mud or it won't stay in place or the paper will wrinkle. Once it's dry, feather out with compound and sand.
+1 to this....it's similar to what I did as well....but I will add the caveat in be honest with your drywall/mud/etc skills. If you're not good enough right now to produce an invisible patch, or not willing to use your first hole as practice and plan to sand...a lot...then I would personally lean towards working upstairs down. I'd rather see an occasional line the carpet in my bedroom then always look up and see a bunch of patches in my living room ceiling
Also, Snipe is right...if you have to deal with getting the switched electrical from the wall into the ceiling, you're patching drywall anyway so might as well bite that bullet and do all the work from below.
RE: recessed lighting wiring without access - mound - 07-31-2019
(07-30-2019, 07:02 PM)Snipe Hunter Wrote: You'll need to plug the holes in the ceiling.
Thanks for the tips!
My goal here is to do this without cutting any extra holes in the ceiling. It's got a textured finish (not "popcorn" but a mud texture) and would be near impossible (for me at least) to patch invisibly. My hope was to avoid refinishing the ceiling.
I've actually found a way already to get the line from the switch up into the ceiling without cutting any holes in the wall or ceiling of the living room. There's a hall closet on the opposite side of the living room wall directly behind the switch, so I can sneak up through the back of the closet where nobody ever sees. But even still - I don't mind a small drywall patch on a smooth wall, that's easy.. But a bunch of 4" patches on a textured ceiling, nope!
RE: recessed lighting wiring without access - joe1086 - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 09:50 AM)mound Wrote: There's a hall closet on the opposite side of the living room wall directly behind the switch, so I can sneak up through the back of the closet where nobody ever sees. But even still - I don't mind a small drywall patch on a smooth wall, that's easy
If the hall closet is below the upstairs bedroom you could cut one more hole under the carpet to drill through the closet wall's top plate.
RE: recessed lighting wiring without access - mound - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 10:34 AM)joe1086 Wrote: If the hall closet is below the upstairs bedroom you could cut one more hole under the carpet to drill through the closet wall's top plate.
I had thought about that too but it's under an adjoining bedroom. Would have to pull up carpet in two rooms then. I think.. gonna look closer!