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+-- Thread: Living without a Miter Saw? Festool table instead? (/showthread.php?tid=7367220)
RE: Living without a Miter Saw? Festool table instead? - mdhills - 01-19-2022
From your post, it sounds like you already have the mft+tracksaw so you know the capabilities of these relative to your miter saw. And your miter saw is still your most-used tool.
Peter Millard has some youtube podcasts where he enthuses about the mft+tracksaw as his primary station in his compact shop.
I have my 10"scms on a bosch gravity-rise stand and normally use it on the driveway when needed, although it can be used in the garage at the cost of the dust getting everywhere. This is a slightly awkward combination -- the stand is good for rolling out, but it isn't particularly compact. I tend to store it out of the shop, which means it doesn't get used as much. If breaking down just a few boards, I might use hand saw or jigsaw in the shop. Tablesaw+sled is my normal crosscut setup in the shop for finished cuts. Track saw gets used for sheet goods and crosscuting glued-up panels (I use a crosscut square with the rail, as I don't have the MFT).
What cutting capacities do you need? what is your cut depth with your track saw? A non-sliding CMS can be stored pretty compact.
RE: Living without a Miter Saw? Festool table instead? - paul2004 - 01-19-2022
It depends on what you build , to some extent.
I do a lot of bookshelves and stuff like that.
It would be difficult to cut 7 foot styles on an MFT and have them be absolutely identical length (which is easy with a miter saw and stop).
I suppose shorter pieces are less of an issue.
My miter saw gets used in every project, multiple times. I think it's well worth investing the small amount of floor space it takes.
Worse case, if you have to pull it off a shelf every time you need it (or your portable stand), still worth it, IMO.
Think about it, the time to pull a miter saw off the shelf is comparable (or less than) to the time it will take to get the tracksaw out of the systrainer and set up the fence, etc on the MFT.
You already have a miter saw, it really costs you nothing to keep it, why not keep it?
If nothing else, try the MFT approach and then if you run into a situation where the miter saw is really better, at least you have it available.
I also built a box around the back of my miter saw. It really helps with dust collection. Not perfect, but us woodworkers should really wear a dust mask the entire time we are in the shop (not just cut, and yank the mask off).
RE: Living without a Miter Saw? Festool table instead? - jteneyck - 01-19-2022
You either need a larger shop or to get rid of some stuff so the one you have is truly functional. I have a friend who's shop is smaller than yours and he turns out some amazing work, but everything takes longer than it should. It's a compromise he accepts but I never would. The heart of his tiny shop is a PM66 tablesaw. It's stationary, as is his bench. Everything else moves from its stored position into an opening for use then goes back against a wall or under a stairway. He has no miter saw.
My tablesaw does everything needed. I have a miter saw because it's more convenient for some things, not because it can do things my tablesaw can't. A jigsaw is my favorite tool for rough cutting lumber to length; much safer than using a miter saw, too.
The MFT + tracksaw is great for jobsite use but falls far short of being able to do what a tablesaw is capable of, yet it takes up just as much space. Poor choice if space is limited, IMHO. I would get rid of that in a heartbeat and get a tablesaw.
John
RE: Living without a Miter Saw? Festool table instead? - Cooler - 01-19-2022
I use a track saw for sheet goods. Cleaner cuts and handier to carry pieces. Also, safer to cut than handling 4' x 8' sheets.
But it sucks at cutting narrow stock or small pieces. A table saw is better, but narrow strips require extra safety measures.
Overall, I find that the track saw feels safer to use than a table saw, but is not qualified for cutting small pieces or tenons or narrow strips.
RE: Living without a Miter Saw? Festool table instead? - Tahoe Gator - 01-19-2022
(01-19-2022, 07:54 AM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: If you had a tablesaw, I might hesitantly agree with others that you could store away the miter saw until you need it. But with only a tracksaw (you call it a sliding saw)? No way. The tracksaw is poor at doing a no. of things as compared to a tablesaw (repetitive cuts of small pieces, dadoes and bevel cuts all of which can be handled without second guesses by a good miter saw).
You may survive with the tracksaw and an "on-call" miter saw but your woodworking will be one of compromises.
My suggestion is to find room for it. What is that black tool cabinet for? Can it be moved to somewhere for the miter saw?
Remember that the tracksaw is good for breaking down sheets, and building stuff with ply and mdf. Some will say they can build everything and furniture with only the tracksaw.....I personally dont think the portable tool can replace the stationary tool, and I know none who do that either. It's like saying a drill press isn't neccessary as long as you own a cordless drill. If you're a carpenter rather than a furniture maker, the saying might be right.
If you are familiar with the fog, you should know how much money people throw at their mfts for accessories and gadgets.....trying to make them work!
Simon
Hi Simon and thanks for the reply. But I do have a table saw! Maybe hard to see, but a 3hp Grizzly with a router table extension is slid against the wall, and I've piled a bunch of jigs and whatnot on top of it while I am figuring out storage and configuration. I do peek on FOG at times. Yah, Festool is a slippery slope. Kinda like buying a razor blade :-)
RE: Living without a Miter Saw? Festool table instead? - Tahoe Gator - 01-19-2022
(01-19-2022, 08:43 AM)Cooler Wrote: The Mafell Erika replaces the table saw and miter saw. If I were starting over and had limited space that is the route I would take. (Watch the videos--and don't let the price scare you off--it replaces several tools).
https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-erika-70ec-pull-push-saw
Wow, I didn't know such a tool exists. I just watched every video on that page. My 3hp Grizzly table saw takes up a ton of space and spews dust everywhere, even with a 2hp dust collector attached to it. I am now thinking that I might put the Grizzly on Craig's list and go with the Mafell or the Festool table saw to free up a ton of space and cut down on dust at the same time. I would lose the built in route table on my TS, so I'd need to accept using a handheld router for those tasks, as well as a router for dado cuts, which it doesn't seem like the Mafell could do, but my cabinet making days are over and it's mostly all furniture projects for me, which don't require long dado cuts so often.
RE: Living without a Miter Saw? Festool table instead? - Splinter006 - 01-20-2022
(01-19-2022, 04:34 PM)Tahoe Gator Wrote: Wow, I didn't know such a tool exists. I just watched every video on that page. My 3hp Grizzly table saw takes up a ton of space and spews dust everywhere, even with a 2hp dust collector attached to it. I am now thinking that I might put the Grizzly on Craig's list and go with the Mafell or the Festool table saw to free up a ton of space and cut down on dust at the same time. I would lose the built in route table on my TS, so I'd need to accept using a handheld router for those tasks, as well as a router for dado cuts, which it doesn't seem like the Mafell could do, but my cabinet making days are over and it's mostly all furniture projects for me, which don't require long dado cuts so often.
Figured I'd chime in since this saw doesn't get brought up too much- I currently use an Erika 70ec which was the last 120v model Mafell offered. Its great to be able to store the table saw on a storage rack when not in use. It's a great tool. There are some compromises to be made from a cabinet table saw but the versatility is there. There is a Mafell forum out there with info. There's definitely a learning curve to sighting the blade to a cut line but you figure it out and the accuracy is great. No dado blades, bummer.
The only shortcoming for me that's a nuisance is cutting heavy stock that with an off-cut which wants to fall off the table. I'm typically supporting the workpiece against a fence with my left hand (assisted by a table extension to the left holding the keep-piece) and pulling the blade with my right hand. There is no way to catch/support the off cut if it wants to fall off the table. For this reason I cut stock with a long off-cut on the assembly table with the track saw. That's really the only time I miss having a miter saw, the rest of the time I am glad not to have a dusty miter saw in the shop. Great to have a table saw out of the way when you don't need it.
If you've got a good setup for material support setup and you aren't cutting up trim all the time, I'd suggest use your track saw and assembly table for making miter cuts. You could even use a Parf Guide or CNC to create a track saw miter station with dog holes. Last suggestion- look at a system like the Mafell KSS 40 if you need a miter saw but don't want one in your shop.
RE: Living without a Miter Saw? Festool table instead? - stav - 01-20-2022
Another option is the Norsaw 805. Similar to the Mafel, it has table saw and miter saw rolled into one. I picked up an incomplete one on Craigslist recently as a curiosity and because it was really cheap. Looking at reviews and such, this was designed so it could live out in the weather if needed. Like the Mafel, it is a different way of working. The blade rises up out of the table for the miter saw functionality with a handle. So essentially a chop saw in reverse. It can also rotate to any angle. The table saw function is pretty normal for a table saw.
RE: Living without a Miter Saw? Festool table instead? - messmaker - 01-20-2022
This is an interesting question. I have been contemplating buying a 12 inch slider to replace the 10 inch model I have now. The more I look into it, the less I think I will do it. I do a lot of woodworking on out slide stuff, so I love the speed of a miter saw, but the precision is just not there. It is fine for narrow wood or trim,but wider stuff always have better results on the table saw. I have to think that a miter saw, especially a slider, is not or fine woodworking. You can get wood close with several tools(circular saw,band saw,handsaw,miter saw) followed by a finish cut on the table saw and be just fine. I will keep mine for all of those :good enough" jobs, but will not be setting aside $ for a Kapex.
RE: Living without a Miter Saw? Festool table instead? - rwe2156 - 01-20-2022
There are some compact miter saws like the Delta and Bosch. As the proud ;-) owner of a Bosch axial glide, I wouldn't buy one again but that's another story.
As I've progressed, I'm kind of in agreement with Fred, when I'm looking for dead on accurate cuts, I'm using a sled on my TS.
Retrospect, for furnituremaking I view a miter saw as more of a cut off saw.
That said, the Bosch is very accurate, just not accurate enough.
Short answer: yes, you can live without one.