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+-- Thread: Carbide Chisel Set (/showthread.php?tid=7368749)
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RE: Carbide Chisel Set - adamcherubini - 05-29-2022
(05-28-2022, 09:52 PM)iclark Wrote: Why would you want an oval skew?
It may be hard to find one that is high-carbon steel. I seem to recall that the miss-communication that lead to the oval skews happened after the transition to HSS by the major manufacturers.
I guess I shouldn’t have mentioned it because I’ve never used one. I thought the idea was that they were easier to roll when doing beads and such.
I also wanted to ask about the reason for the carbide tooling. Is it to avoid or delay sharpening?
RE: Carbide Chisel Set - MichaelMouse - 05-29-2022
(05-28-2022, 02:10 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: Do not buy high carbon steel tools. They do not last as long and if you do not know how to sharpen them they will be useless in a week. Get a cheap set of M2 tools or like you asked use carbide to learn how to turn and once you do that go to a good set of M2 or the best of M4 which I wish I could afford. Or again powdered metal.
Here are two sets for you to start with.
1. https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCHSS8.html Cheap set with all that you need and cheap enough to learn how to sharpen them
2. https://www.amazon.com/Woodturning-DW-3-Carbide-Detailer-Stainless-Woodhandle/dp/B08G55NWXK/ref=sr_1_10?crid=2GQPPCRUJ7KLF&keywords=carbide+turning+tools+for+wood&qid=1653764869&sprefix=carbid+turning+tools%2Caps%2C147&sr=8-10 Good set for small turnings of 6" or less anything more and you will need a larger set.
Carbon steel is easier to sharpen than HSS, which exists because it resists abrasion better. You sharpen by abrading, right?
Carbon steel is touched up easily by stones/slips. HSS proponents seem to favor powered wheels, which abrade away much more steel touching up an edge than stones. My carbon steel set of tools which came with my Delta lathe in the 70s are a lot shorter than they used to be, but still in nearly constant service because of their forged design (gouges) or ease of touchup (straight) for those "final" passes that minimize sanding.
Yes, I have scrapers and various at the time popular alloy tools but they do hogging, mostly.
I hate to sand, so I treasure those carbon steel tools. And yes, I know that my diamond hones can touch up an alloy edge. Use them all the time. They allow me to keep the grind the tool has, which I have developed a feel for, and keep me from ruining it by a slipping or mis-set jig.
As to oval skews, one of yesterday's gimmicks, I went back to straight chisels, which were marketed as "beading tools" when I learned to turn. Single edge, long bevel can be grabby, but makes a slick bead. I broke the edges on the machined (not forged) tools to make them all roll easier. When I started turning, even skewed chisels were still available as L or R single edge.
Not sure why larger turnings would demand larger tools, as I keep my toolrest snugged close to the work so the machine can't out-leverage me on a long hang.
RE: Carbide Chisel Set - iclark - 05-29-2022
(05-29-2022, 02:15 AM)adamcherubini Wrote: I guess I shouldn’t have mentioned it because I’ve never used one. I thought the idea was that they were easier to roll when doing beads and such.
I also wanted to ask about the reason for the carbide tooling. Is it to avoid or delay sharpening?
The oval skews are way too easy to roll on the long edge and a little too easy to roll on the short edge. You want to break the edges for the long edge so that they do not cut into the rest, but the flat helps keep the long-point vertical and avoid catches.
Rounding the short edge does help roll the cut, but oval skews taper down so quickly that it is very easy to over do it (and get a catch).
Admittedly, my bias against the oval skews did make more sense to me after taking classes from both Lacer and Raffin. Lacer, especially, teaches honing the skew edge by hand (frequently) to maintain the sharpness and only go back to the grinder when most of the hollow has been sharpened away with the hone.
On the carbide tools: for the ones with a flat top or a drop-nose, they do avoid the need to learn how to sharpen (and the expense of sharpening systems). They are also very forgiving when learning and, with many woods, the finished surface can be quite reasonable.
Do note that my comments about carbide do not apply to the cupped cutter like the one on the Hunter system. No one in my family ever managed to use one without way too many catches.
RE: Carbide Chisel Set - Arlin Eastman - 06-01-2022
(05-29-2022, 05:43 AM)MichaelMouse Wrote: Carbon steel is easier to sharpen than HSS, which exists because it resists abrasion better. You sharpen by abrading, right?
Carbon steel is touched up easily by stones/slips. HSS proponents seem to favor powered wheels, which abrade away much more steel touching up an edge than stones. My carbon steel set of tools which came with my Delta lathe in the 70s are a lot shorter than they used to be, but still in nearly constant service because of their forged design (gouges) or ease of touchup (straight) for those "final" passes that minimize sanding.
Yes, I have scrapers and various at the time popular alloy tools but they do hogging, mostly.
I hate to sand, so I treasure those carbon steel tools. And yes, I know that my diamond hones can touch up an alloy edge. Use them all the time. They allow me to keep the grind the tool has, which I have developed a feel for, and keep me from ruining it by a slipping or mis-set jig.
As to oval skews, one of yesterday's gimmicks, I went back to straight chisels, which were marketed as "beading tools" when I learned to turn. Single edge, long bevel can be grabby, but makes a slick bead. I broke the edges on the machined (not forged) tools to make them all roll easier. When I started turning, even skewed chisels were still available as L or R single edge.
Not sure why larger turnings would demand larger tools, as I keep my toolrest snugged close to the work so the machine can't out-leverage me on a long hang.
Since you have been turning longer then I have and with what you said I agree but I suggested it to a beginner and not a person who is experianced in sharpening. So I hope you understand why I said what I did and mentioned it in my post as well.
RE: Carbide Chisel Set - MichaelMouse - 06-01-2022
(06-01-2022, 01:15 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: Since you have been turning longer then I have and with what you said I agree but I suggested it to a beginner and not a person who is experianced in sharpening. So I hope you understand why I said what I did and mentioned it in my post as well.
Point missed was that they shouldn't be "sharpened", but the edges renewed with hones. Don't change the geometry until you know what you're changing to gives advantage. Until then, use the supplied geometry and hone only.