(02-20-2023, 10:32 AM)Don_M Wrote: Question: the two breakers tied together – the wires going to each of the breakers; is one of the wires black and the other red? If so, then tying the breakers makes sense because it sounds like a 3 wire cable using a common neutral and tying the breakers together allows them trip if either circuit overloads/shorts.
> I checked the panel.  The wire feeding into the breakers is a 4-wire cable: ground, white/neutral, black/hot, red/hot.  The red feeds into one of the double breakers, the black feeds into the other half of the double breaker.

Is the dishwasher plugged into this receptacle?
> I replaced the dishwasher some years back.  If I recall correctly, it is hardwired into a junction box back behind it.  This receptacle is above the counter on the kitchen island, which is a 2-level island.  So no, the dishwasher does not plug into this receptacle.

Then perhaps the red (or black) ran the dishwasher and the other was for the GFCI protected appliances. But removing/breaking the bonding tab between each outlet will likely give you trouble with a GFCI receptacle due to a shared neutral and possible current imbalance (I doubt a GFCI will even function property).
> I agree, this appears to be the case. And if so, they never had any kind of GFCI protection anywhere.  So I'm thinking a double pole GFCI breaker is the only option.  I'm looking at Home Depot website and they range in price from $30 to $300.  Some of them have a little coiled wire attached to them, some don't.  I'll need some suggestions about which one to get.  Amps range from 20 to 60.

You could try a double pole GFCI breaker (not cheap) and then use a regular duplex receptacle in the box. Black wire to one of the outlets; red to the other. Remove the bonding tab between the outlets and then one of the outlets would be for small appliances and the other the dishwasher. Both will be GFCI protected (although typically not required for the dishwasher). This is not a whole lot different from just ignoring the red wire (dishwasher circuit) all together, but it looks closer to a code installation -  i.e., dedicated circuit for the dishwasher and at least one dedicated small appliance kitchen circuit.
> The regular duplex outlet with bonding tab removed is what is already in place.  Meeting code - and being safe - is of the utmost importance for this situation.

(02-20-2023, 08:42 AM)Roly Wrote: Is the dishwasher plugged in, if so you could change that to a gfci outlet along with changing the countertop one.     Roly

(02-20-2023, 12:45 PM)BaileyNo5 Wrote: Pretty sure the dishwasher is hardwired into a junction box back behind it.

(02-20-2023, 01:07 PM)Roly Wrote: If that is the case that it is hardwired and half of the outlet is on the same circuit as the dishwasher it is no longer a dedicated circuit.  Still think capping the red wire at the outlet and putting a gfci outlet in place of existing outlet is the best way.     If you go with the breakers keep in mind the shared neutral and the requirement that  both breakers be tied together on a shared neutral circuit.  Roly

(02-20-2023, 01:32 PM)BaileyNo5 Wrote: OK, lets assume the red wire is powering the dishwasher and the black wire is powering the outlet.  If I cap the red wire, won't that mean I have no power to the dishwasher?  Unless, of course, the power goes first to the dishwasher (which would make sense since it is directly below the outlet, and the panel is directly below in the basement) and then to the outlet. 

Just wondering why the heck they would ever tie the dishwasher in to an outlet - seems totally unnecessary.  And how would this affect the shared neutral, would that be OK?

(02-20-2023, 01:48 PM)FrankAtl Wrote: The red wire isn't feeing anything except the receptacle so you can cap it off and do what Roly suggests. Some of the other ideas would work but are more expensive.
Frank

(02-19-2023, 10:16 PM)Cabinet Monkey Wrote: I’d suggest you go get 2 GFCI breakers and install them in your panel in place of the two reg. breakers that feed that receptacle now. 

Yes, it’s more expensive. Yes, you need to shut off power to the panel before working on it (or you should anyway) but it’s the only real way to keep the functionality you have now.   

(02-20-2023, 09:23 PM)Snipe Hunter Wrote: It's more expensive but not by much. Also a lot easier and you don't have to trace circuits. From an inspectors point of view, I'd rather trip one in the panel than several at once on the same circuit because the installer didn't trace the circuit first before sticking one at every sink. Then I have to look all over the house to find all the tripped GFCI receptacles because I thought I was only tripping one. The last one is usually buried behind about 40 moving boxes in the garage.

Usually the bathrooms are all on one circuit so only the first receptacle need the GFCI receptacle. Laundry sink is usually on it's own circuit and the kitchen is usually one or 2 circuits. Most times the garage circuit is the same circuit as the exterior receptacles. ... but not always. Always an Easter egg hunt.