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+-- Thread: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! (/showthread.php?tid=7335418)
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - K. L. McReynolds - 12-16-2017
Building codes come in two varieties. Sensible and political.
Sensible codes are the ones that create a sound and safe building.
Political codes are the ones written by municipalities to restrict building or make money for the municipality.
When volunteering for the local Habitat for Humanity chapter, I got to know the local building codes office and inspectors quite well. First, competent codes inspectors must have a wide knowledge of building practices and the codes themselves. Not an easy education to get without practical experience. If a person is a competent builder, they will usually make more money than an inspector. It is kind of like becoming a welder by just reading about the process and starting.
We used to get the newby inspectors. For two reasons. One, our builds usually took months. And two, we complied with the codes and inspections.
One young fella failed a job I was supervising because there were too many wall studs. The job was rehabbing a 100 year old building(that was donated). By taking the demolition to the studs meant the entire build had to meet current codes(not necessary if studs were not exposed). To save time(and since materials were donated) I had my crews start in opposite corners and make sure the studs were 16" OC. That meant there were sometimes studs sandwiched or only inches apart.
The inspector said the studs had to be 16"OC, nothing more. I explained the code was MINIMUM standard to no avail. I accepted the fail and we shut down(the crew was for half a day only and it was almost noon). A phone call to his boss fixed the situation.
I had inspectors who knew less than I did about the job I was doing. I researched many jobs before doing them simply because I could not know the entire code and it just made sense to me. I had inspectors gig me because they just could not let a 'handyman' pass on the first shot. One told me I had stripped 1/4" too much insulation off the service wiring into the breaker panel(home owners permit---anyone could do the work as long as the job passed inspection)---was just hooking the service in a mobile home. I cut 1/4" off the ends of the wires and passed.
Another was so impressed I installed a header when installing a gable end window in a garage, he never checked much of what I did. He even issued an occupancy certificate before I strapped the house to the foundation. The house came as two pieces and could not be installed on foundation studs, strapped instead. (I installed more straps than the minimum just because that is what I do---over build sometimes).
I read about wars between codes offices and the folks they serve---and that is how the system is SUPPOSED to work----and marvel at how governments evolved a system to protect their citizens and it morphed into a whip snapping, go to jail if deviated dictatorship in some cases.
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - Admiral - 12-16-2017
(12-15-2017, 11:35 PM)Gary G™ Wrote: Admiral
You're opinion and you're welcome to it.
To me, it's a weak excuse for not doing a proper job one is paid to do.
OH, don't misunderstand, that's the legislative/political rationale for the statutes that carve out liability, not my opinion, I'm with ya!
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - crokett™ - 12-16-2017
(12-16-2017, 03:00 AM)K. L McReynolds Wrote: marvel at how governments evolved a system to protect their citizens and it morphed into a whip snapping, go to jail if deviated dictatorship in some cases.
Don't most government systems eventually morph into that?
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - EightFingers - 12-17-2017
Try Hawaii county. Since moving here, I’ve gotten five permits for various projects from a 1200 sqft workshop to an electrical project. What I learned is to make sure you have some mistake in your project somewhere the inspector can find it. Pretty easy since codes here are pretty strict due to earthquakes and hurricanes. So the inspector comes, finds the “problem” and off he goes. Only time this failed was when the inspector brought out two trainees. Well you know they HAVE to find some issues so they are super picky. And picky like a bent nail or hurricane clip installed a little crooked.
Ultimately, I passed every inspection, tho’.
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - EricU - 12-17-2017
(12-16-2017, 09:50 PM)crokett™ Wrote: Don't most government systems eventually morph into that?
if you really want to hate your building inspector, move to a place that contracts it out. I have a friend that lives in a small town near here that can't get a permit because the building inspector won't return his calls. The inspector is a contractor to the township.
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - Ninefingers_grapes - 12-17-2017
What you need to do is Threaten to sue over his/hers qualifications, qualifications of the board and also state than you will be seeking judgement for time lost, and expenses incurred, and injury fees.Also a review by a good licensed PE who have NO love for the city/county departments to assist in law suit.
Find a attorney that dislikes the organization/city/state and is qualified (I know, all the butt-wipe Lawyers say they are qualified).
I have treated my building idiots many times, and told them I plan to prove they have zero abilities in inspection plans or other things.
I dislike attorneys, will go to extreme costa to avoid a 100 buck job by one costing 1500 dollars.
Good Luck
Be ready to follow through, false bravado will cost you more in the end.
GOOD Luck
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - EdL - 12-17-2017
(12-17-2017, 08:42 AM)EricU Wrote: if you really want to hate your building inspector, move to a place that contracts it out. I have a friend that lives in a small town near here that can't get a permit because the building inspector won't return his calls. The inspector is a contractor to the township.
Our village uses an outside contractor for inspections & permits, a little slower, never had a problem with them.
Our county hired the owner of a local electrical contractor for it's inspector....lol.
Ed
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - davidhines - 12-18-2017
I seem, to remember a tree house thread. A woodnet member lived next door and didnt he use the code people to get it removed?
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - MstrCarpenter - 12-19-2017
(12-15-2017, 10:58 PM)MartyRA Wrote: You can't regulate stupid, but it's generally a good idea to regulate what stupid people are allowed to do.
I understand and fully support the concept. Some of the regulations are a little extreme and/or politically motivated, but if they're clearly written and available for everyone to find and read I'm fine with obeying them. I find all too often that conflicts arise when there are differing interpretations of the regulations and even more so when the critical decisions are left to "A.H.J.". I treat inspectors with respect and I expect to treated in kind. If I find it necessary to challenge a determination, I usually bring the book and explain how I interpreted the code and politely ask if he agrees. I'm not there to prove him wrong, I just want him to accept what I've done. If he understands my point of view (he doesn't have to agree) and say's "I'll let it go"; I got what I wanted, and he can still believe he's right.
The real reason I replied to this post is to ask permission to use that phrase. It's a worthy quote!
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - Tynyyn - 12-22-2017
I parked my car in my back yard. The local ACC and code compliance guy came through my neighbor hood and saw the car sitting in the back yard and took a picture. A few days later he wrote a letter to me saying I couldn't park my car in the back yard. It was in violation of village covenants. I went down to his office with the letter and asked him why I couldn't park in the back yard. The car was not a junker nor was it visible from the main road in front of my house, only the side road. He said it was in the covenants that all vehicles must be parked on defined driveways or areas in the yard used for parking. I then asked him what defines an area for parking. He said that it must have a border around it. I asked what kind of border?. He said a brick border, concrete border, or wood border. A big smile came over my face and I asked what size must the border be and he said it didn't matter as long as it was a defined border surrounding the vehicle.
Since the area I park my vehicle is right next to my work shop and I had recently cut some walnut, I had flitches of walnut. I threw them down on the ground around my car and all was good. Never had to move my car just add some ugly wavy walnut flitches and the guy said it looked good enough. The wonders of a beuracracy.