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+-- Thread: Fret-Saw /Coping Saw (/showthread.php?tid=7348400)
RE: Fret-Saw /Coping Saw - Derek Cohen - 05-27-2019
(05-26-2019, 08:49 PM)wmickley Wrote: I use a coping saw for sawing out dovetail waste. It is more efficient than a fretsaw for this task because the teeth are larger. However, it takes some skill to learn to make a sharp turn with a coping saw. A hardware store coping saw is too flimsy for good work, but an Eclipse saw, which is good, is usually in the $16 to $25 dollar range. There are other good saws as well, and in the same price range.
A fret saw is used for very thin work like 1/16 or 1/18 inch thick, maybe even up to 3/16 or 1/4. We call it fretwork. Often this is used for a decorative frieze, like a lattice design glued on a solid background. It is pretty delicate when you are cutting it, but is sturdy when glued in place.
This chest has a decorative frieze of fretwork just above the top drawers and some more open fretwork above that
Warren, you must have viewed the video I posted. I doubt that I could turn a coping saw as tightly as this fretsaw. Perhaps you can, and if so, please share some advice on doing so. You are also welcome to comment on the video (I/we are here to learn from each other).
The speed of the blade I used, a Pegas skip tooth #7, motors along quite well enough, and the surface remaining is decent as well (although that is not as important, although I am aiming for 1mm of waste remaining). The 20mm thick Hard Maple is about 8-9 times the thickness of that you recommend. I generally do not snap blades very often.
Regards from Perth
Derek
RE: Fret-Saw /Coping Saw - AHill - 05-27-2019
I depends somewhat on the saw kerf you've left behind when sawing the dovetails, but one advantage of the fret saw is the blade can usually fit into the kerf easily without disturbing the sides. I've done it with a coping saw, but because the curve is shallower than a fret saw, I end up needing to remove more waste at the bottom of the dovetail.
RE: Fret-Saw /Coping Saw - Tony Z - 05-27-2019
For years, in the waste area of both pins and tails, I generally make a non-critical cut to the baseline, sometimes two, in a V-shape. This permits me to start my coping saw very close to the baseline. My coping saw? A pair of Olson's that "Tools for Working Wood" sells, with Pegasus blade. Why two saws? One is always set with the blade canted to the left and the other canted to the right. The Olson saws are about $15 each and permit easy tensioning to your liking.
Works for me.
RE: Fret-Saw /Coping Saw - Bill_Houghton - 05-27-2019
It would be nice to know who made the saw I paid $1 for at some yard sale, that works very well for me; but the manufacturer decided against putting a name on it. Nonetheless, it's better than any of the other coping saws I've owned over the years.
RE: Fret-Saw /Coping Saw - tablesawtom - 05-27-2019
(05-26-2019, 08:55 PM)hbmcc Wrote: Tut! Tut...! Now you should know that useful economy is no longer permitted in modern culture.... It would never surprise me to find the blades fit only New Concept saws as well.
They sure look cool!
I really do like this response because it is true, at least it seems like it on this forum.
I also wrote
And since I just watched Derek's video I thought I would ask. Derek demoed the Knew Concepts fret saw, and Lee Valley is where I was looking. I was also wondering if the blades are interchangeable.
And again I wrote: What an awesome response to my inquiries Derek. If I were to purchase a fret saw, can I purchase the blade clamps separately to make it into a coping saw or are the frames different also?
And I the reason behind the questions is
If you are dealing with a young almost teenager you have to have something that works well or you can forget it. Like with my dovetail saw, it cuts and he doesn't have to deal with a poor or dull saw. If the saw cuts and he can see improvement in his cutting ability he will spend a couple of hours doing it each time he comes over. If the saw doesn't cut he is done in about a minute. I really don't want to spend $100 for a fret/coping saw but I believe that you should train up a child in the way that he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. Believe me there is a lot more learning going on than just woodworking. And he is starting to get to be a good little woodworker. The last time he was here he explained how they sharpen chisels at school ( 7th grade shop class) and he asked me how I sharpen my chisels. Boy what an in depth opportunity on sharpening.
So MY question still remains the same : I was also wondering if the blades are interchangeable. To which I got an answer to and the second is: If I were to purchase a fret saw, can I purchase the blade clamps separately to make it into a coping saw or are the frames different also? The saw in question is a Knew Concepts saw.
Because of the reason behind the post was also stated I am now wondering, did you even take time to actually read the original post or the responses?
Tom
RE: Fret-Saw /Coping Saw - wmickley - 05-27-2019
(05-27-2019, 11:24 AM)tablesawtom Wrote: I really do like this response because it is true, at least it seems like it on this forum.
I also wrote
And since I just watched Derek's video I thought I would ask. Derek demoed the Knew Concepts fret saw, and Lee Valley is where I was looking. I was also wondering if the blades are interchangeable.
And again I wrote: What an awesome response to my inquiries Derek. If I were to purchase a fret saw, can I purchase the blade clamps separately to make it into a coping saw or are the frames different also?
And I the reason behind the questions is
If you are dealing with a young almost teenager you have to have something that works well or you can forget it. Like with my dovetail saw, it cuts and he doesn't have to deal with a poor or dull saw. If the saw cuts and he can see improvement in his cutting ability he will spend a couple of hours doing it each time he comes over. If the saw doesn't cut he is done in about a minute. I really don't want to spend $100 for a fret/coping saw but I believe that you should train up a child in the way that he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. Believe me there is a lot more learning going on than just woodworking. And he is starting to get to be a good little woodworker. The last time he was here he explained how they sharpen chisels at school ( 7th grade shop class) and he asked me how I sharpen my chisels. Boy what an in depth opportunity on sharpening.
So MY question still remains the same : I was also wondering if the blades are interchangeable. To which I got an answer to and the second is: If I were to purchase a fret saw, can I purchase the blade clamps separately to make it into a coping saw or are the frames different also? The saw in question is a Knew Concepts saw.
Because of the reason behind the post was also stated I am now wondering, did you even take time to actually read the original post or the responses?
Tom
Tom, there are a lot more than just two companies making coping saws and fret saws. In general over the years a coping saw has pins and a fretsaw clamps a plain end blade that gets clamped. Both types have a big range of tooth patterns. If you buy a blade with larger teeth for the fretsaw it can be used for more robust applications, so there is overlap.
Just don't buy a $5.99 coping saw and expect a reasonable tool. You get an awful lot for an extra ten or fifteen dollars.
RE: Fret-Saw /Coping Saw - Derek Cohen - 05-27-2019
(05-27-2019, 11:24 AM)itablesawtom Wrote: ....
So MY question still remains the same : I was also wondering if the blades are interchangeable. To which I got an answer to and the second is: If I were to purchase a fret saw, can I purchase the blade clamps separately to make it into a coping saw or are the frames different also? The saw in question is a Knew Concepts saw ...
Tom
Tom, you cannot turn a KC coping saw into a fretsaw by adding different blade clamp. Check out the pic I posted. Only the Blue Spruce can be altered this way.
Regards from Perth
Derek
RE: Fret-Saw /Coping Saw - Derek Cohen - 05-27-2019
(05-27-2019, 11:41 AM)wmickley Wrote: Tom, there are a lot more than just two companies making coping saws and fret saws. In general over the years a coping saw has pins and a fretsaw clamps a plain end blade that gets clamped. Both types have a big range of tooth patterns. If you buy a blade with larger teeth for the fretsaw it can be used for more robust applications, so there is overlap.
Just don't buy a $5.99 coping saw and expect a reasonable tool. You get an awful lot for an extra ten or fifteen dollars.
For a fretsaw blade with coarser teeth, try the 18 tpi by Elipse. Very fast cutting (at the expense of some roughness).
What you are also paying for with the KC saws are the quick blade connectors and the adjustable blade angles. These are in addition to the stiff frame.
Keep in mind that the original audience for the fretsaw are professional jewellers. That was for whom the saws were designed and built when I met Lee.
Regards from Perth
Derek
RE: Fret-Saw /Coping Saw - tablesawtom - 05-27-2019
(05-27-2019, 12:54 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: For a fretsaw blade with coarser teeth, try the 18 tpi by Elipse. Very fast cutting (at the expense of some roughness).
What you are also paying for with the KC saws are the quick blade connectors and the adjustable blade angles. These are in addition to the stiff frame.
Keep in mind that the original audience for the fretsaw are professional jewellers. That was for whom the saws were designed and built when I met Lee.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I checked out the pictures and I do not see why a fret saw can't be changed into a coping if the whole clamping assemblies are changed. From a production standpoint one wants to use one part for many applications rather than many parts for basically a minor change. But if I can't then, it is something for the company to consider. But if parts do not interchange they don't interchange and I will have to pick the lesser of two evils.
As far as a Lot of other responses, I have been woodworking for almost 50 years. i have built 3 complete kitchens, all the furniture in my house, as well as other commissions and I love building work benches. I also have another kitchen to build this summer. I am not a pilgrim to woodworking as some seem to think by their replies and this certainly isn't my first rodeo.
Yes I can get cheaper saws but the point is, the person in question is just 13 years old and he has good hands but his fine motor skills although very well along are not as advanced as an adult. That is why Jr. High is Jr High and High school is High school and College is another story altogether. Success gets success and frustration, because of a poor saw while learning, leads to frustration and ends with a big turn off that may never be recovered which bring an end to any reward building out of wood can bring. We can continue to chop the waist out or go to the bandsaw and remove as much as we can and then finish with a chisel. I do not need even a very good coping saw to get the job done. But what I need and what will work for him is two different stories
Tom
RE: Fret-Saw /Coping Saw - Bibliophile 13 - 05-27-2019
For that, Tom, I’d recommend an Olsen coping saw along with the Olsen blades. I find the medium blades are most versatile. (They also have coarse and fine.) It’s not an expensive saw, but it works well. Some like the Pegas blades. I’m not a fan of them, myself. Way too much set, and very “grabby” in my hands, anyway. But they’re still better than most of the blades you can get at the home center.
There are some good vintage coping saws out there, but most of your yard sale coping saws are junk. They won’t put enough tension on the blade. Same with most new, hardware store saws.
I think a fretsaw would be too delicate for the kid you describe. Once he masters the coping saw, maybe he’ll be ready for a fretsaw, if he’s interested in really fine work.