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+-- Thread: An Introduction and a Bench Build (/showthread.php?tid=7354136)
RE: An Introduction and a Bench Build - adamcherubini - 04-03-2020
This is one of the nicest guys in woodworking.
https://youtu.be/yvhn-PAfEW4
Mike is really fun to hang out with, I’d recommend his classes to anyone.
Not what I would call an historically accurate bench, nor perhaps historical woodworking, not that we care for this discussion. Mike shows how to use a bench without vises in a practical no nonsense manner.
What I do is called the “English Method” (sounds like an 80s band). If you google that with my name you will find an old blog post about it. Its a little different from what Mike was showing in that I don’t rely quite so heavily on battens and hold fasts for every operation. Mike gets it. He’s just trying to demonstrate all the different things you can do with a few simple boards, stops and holdfasts.
One of Mike’s motivations is to reduce the cost barrier that prevents folks from starting woodworking. I think he’s right that we’ve over commercialized woodworking to some degree. We probably need to consider that more here. I’m happy to debate the merits of tail vises, but, if at the end of the day, we leave folks with the impression that the ONLY way to do this is to BUY this maybe we haven't helped everyone. I’ll be interested in your replies.
PS one of my favorite Mike Siemsen demos is where he cuts a beautiful set of dovetails with a hack saw and I think a sharpened screwdriver. He’s really fun to watch in person.
RE: An Introduction and a Bench Build - Master-of-None - 04-03-2020
So not to break up the lively discussions above, but here's the second part of the bench construction.
For me to able to make the "built-in" mortices in the bench top, I needed to make some "jigs". To make that, I ran a couple of the 2x6's through the planer without changing the height setting on the planer. The boards needed to be exactly the same thickness. I cross cut the boards to make a "miniature" bench top corner where the mortices are. And to set the correct width of the mortice, I needed a leg with a tenon. So I made a stubby leg with a full sized tenon. The picture below shows what I'm talking about. You can see the four pieces for mortice before glue up, and the stubby leg in the back. I made two of the stubby legs with tenons.
[attachment=25657]
After the glue dries, this is what it looks like with the leg in the mortice:
[attachment=25658]
The reason why the 2x6's have to be the same thickness was to make sure everything fits without much fiddling and the legs will be co-planer with the top. As you can see below, that worked:
[attachment=25659]
Here's another pic showing the two "legs" with the mortice on one:
[attachment=25660]
Any questions? Please let me know. I may post some more later today, if time permits.
RE: An Introduction and a Bench Build - bandit571 - 04-03-2020
While on a "Walk-about" through a few local Antique stores...came upon this little gem..
[attachment=25661]
$225 for a work bench..( long since sold..)
[attachment=25662]
Seems someone wanted a vise on THEIR bench...and..
[attachment=25663]
They found a use for a dog hole, too.....may have had to customize the hole a bit....
Besides, some of us do NOT live in the past while doing hand tool work.....learned to do mine back in the 60s....long time past.
RE: An Introduction and a Bench Build - Master-of-None - 04-03-2020
A question for everyone, would a crude sketch of the bench design help? I am very bad at drawing and can't use Sketch-Up, but that's all I have. It's the one I used to develop my ideas, joinery, etc.
RE: An Introduction and a Bench Build - Tapper - 04-03-2020
(04-03-2020, 06:23 AM)wmickley Wrote: Most people today don't have much experience planing wood. I was also very happy to discover that my planing was good enough that sanding would degrade the surface. That was 1978. Experience matters.
Pretty presumptuous statement, but not surprising. Rumor has it that you're an accomplished woodworker, hence I suppose your reference to "experience." Many here are hobbyists and hence don't do this for a living. Also doesn't mean they don't know how to use a hand plane. As for the tail vise debate, I heard an old saying years ago that may be instructive, "that's why they make Fords and Chevys"; (obviously dating myself.)
To the OP: Looks like you're off to a nice start - looking forward to the rest of the build!
Doug
RE: An Introduction and a Bench Build - Master-of-None - 04-03-2020
(04-02-2020, 09:57 AM)adamcherubini Wrote: #1 I can barely read your post. I think you just invited me to your wedding? And you are marrying a workbench? Good luck . I’m sure you will be very happy together, but I’m RSVPing; I can’t make it.Adam, I wanted to address a couple of your points.
#2 design sounds ok. You don’t need a tailvise. The key to a successful Roubo bench is the fit quality of the M&T. Also don’t need dog hole row.
#3 personally, I would skip the planing and ripping. Tite bond doesn’t need a better surface than construction lumber. Just clamp the heck out of it. I did a bench like this and only glued 1 lamination per day.
Ripping the edges (top surface) is ok, but don’t expect the glued up top to be flat and smooth. You will have to plane it. So I’d skip the table saw and tune up a S#7 instead.
I’ve tried inserting steel rods into laminated bench tops. Waste of time in my opinion.
In point 3 you mentions skipping the planing and ripping. The planing I cannot skip, I just could not bring myself to glue two surfaces that are not smooth, ( I know, I have a problem, but I can be very, lets say fussy, when it comes to some things. ) As far as ripping the boards goes, yes I agree that I will still need to plane the bench surface, but hopefully it will be minimized. As you know, construction grade lumber has the edges rounded over. If it gets glued like that there will be at least 1/8 to 1/4 inches that will need to planed off the whole bench top to get to a level surface. With those edges ripped off, there should be much less hand work, i.e. planing to do.
Finally, in your point 4 you mention sealing the ends. That is a good point that I did not think about. The bench will have a finish on it once it is done, but maybe I need to think about the endgrain right now. At the moment it is not at it's final width, so hopefully that will prevent any problems until I finish the top.
RE: An Introduction and a Bench Build - hbmcc - 04-03-2020
Where's my popcorn?
Oh, she gave it to the dog for treats. That's OK, I hat popcorn, anyway. Someone on this thread is a real stinker ... and, it ain't me for once! So much for watching a bench build.....
Master (MoN), I'd start over. You really don't want this kind of lead-in. Your picture post is good! Third time is a charm. I can stay away.
RE: An Introduction and a Bench Build - Scoony - 04-03-2020
Looks like you got a good start. Keep us posted.
I am on my 4th bench, which means the first 3 was a learning process for me to figure out what I needed based on my preferences.
RE: An Introduction and a Bench Build - msweig - 04-03-2020
(04-03-2020, 08:03 AM)adamcherubini Wrote: This is one of the nicest guys in woodworking.
https://youtu.be/yvhn-PAfEW4
Mike is really fun to hang out with, I’d recommend his classes to anyone.
Not what I would call an historically accurate bench, nor perhaps historical woodworking, not that we care for this discussion. Mike shows how to use a bench without vises in a practical no nonsense manner.
What I do is called the “English Method” (sounds like an 80s band). If you google that with my name you will find an old blog post about it. Its a little different from what Mike was showing in that I don’t rely quite so heavily on battens and hold fasts for every operation. Mike gets it. He’s just trying to demonstrate all the different things you can do with a few simple boards, stops and holdfasts.
One of Mike’s motivations is to reduce the cost barrier that prevents folks from starting woodworking. I think he’s right that we’ve over commercialized woodworking to some degree. We probably need to consider that more here. I’m happy to debate the merits of tail vises, but, if at the end of the day, we leave folks with the impression that the ONLY way to do this is to BUY this maybe we haven't helped everyone. I’ll be interested in your replies.
PS one of my favorite Mike Siemsen demos is where he cuts a beautiful set of dovetails with a hack saw and I think a sharpened screwdriver. He’s really fun to watch in person.
Thanks for linking to that video Adam. I've seen bits and pieces of most of those workholding methods in the past, but never all together.
RE: An Introduction and a Bench Build - Derek Cohen - 04-04-2020
Who needs a vise at all?
![[Image: Vietnamesetoolsoff-Toolsfor-Working-Wo.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/jqpg6Jm2/Vietnamesetoolsoff-Toolsfor-Working-Wo.jpg)
He's been doing it this way for 40 years. Must be right.
More seriously, I went 25 years without a tail vise and got by. I built my current bench, a roubo style, 8 years ago and added a BenchCrafted wagon vise. I really do not know myself these days.
Yes, I know many ways to plane without a tail vise, and still do use these methods some of the time ...
![[Image: PlaningStop_html_m27308f21.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/QN6wtVqD/PlaningStop_html_m27308f21.jpg)
Great video on the Doe's Foot here ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNrof3cd1cA
... but I really would not like to be without it.
Regards from Perth
Derek