(09-16-2020, 12:01 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Just my opinion

I think there's a difference between a finish that is good for selling saws and a finish that is good for using saws. I think a lot of hand saw buyers have very little experience using hand saws and therefore aren't sure what to look for.  Likewise, the hand saw makers are typically not hand saw users. So I'd be hesitant to copy other makers' saws.

The logic appeals, Adam, but in my experience I have not found much variation among saw finishes.

When I was building case furniture, I could have a DT saw in my hand for many hours a day.  Maybe 4-6. Depending on your shop conditions etc, I found some finishes to be better than others.  My favorite was linseed oil. I soaked my handles in linseed oil over night. This also changed the weight and balance of the smaller saws.

Few, if any, here use a dovetail saw for 4-6 hours per week, never mind each day. Maybe each year ..


I particularly did not like very very smooth saw handles, like those everyone produces now. I rasped and wood filed out the curved parts, sometimes scraped a little and not much else.  My friends thought these were too rough to sell and maybe rougher than saw handles would have been 200 years ago. They may have been right. I guess I felt that sand paper, while available 200 years ago, would not have easily handled curved surfaces, I don't think it was cheap and I suspect many 18th c tools were what we would call partially completed tool kits!  

Anyway, I think you want a little roughness for friction on the handle.  I think if you ask shooters, they would say while older pistols had very smooth grips, almost all modern pistols often have textured grips.  So I suspect many would prefer that sort of grip. If I were redesigning saws right now, I would look to the gun manufacturers' grip designs, the over molds and replaceable backstraps. These grips are important because I think its very difficult to grip something tightly without changing the point of aim.

When you are sawing, you really want a light grip on the saw but you don't really want it to move around much. Thus the textured and contoured handle. A polished dowel would be the worst thing for a saw handle. If you feel you need to hold it tightly to keep it from moving around in your hand, its going to be harder to use well.

This is a reason I dislike gent saws. They make little ergonomic sense to me. On the other hand, I like a Japanese saw. Both have straight handles, but the latter are used in tension and the handles are bound in cane.

Try the Gramercy DT saw. The Western handle is thinner than any, and the saw is lighter overall. It begs to be held lightly, and to caress the end grain with its teeth. 

It is finished - flat rather than shiny. I doubt that a rough finish would add much to control. Saw users simply need to learn to relax their grip. 

PS- I've been teaching my boys to saw.  Telling them to relax their hands is a near constant critique. Oh, and I bought some of those Stanley hard point saws based on a couple reviews I read online about how surprisingly nice they were.  I guess its a comparison thing, having spent the last 20 years using custom made saws. Those Stanley saws are absolutely atrocious tools in comparison. I bought them to cut plywood, which I think quickly dulls normal saws. I struggle to get a decent cut with them. A nice saw with a good handle is really easy to use well. I wish everyone could use my saws. I think in 30 minutes, guys would be better at sawing and have very different ideas about what they want, what features make a saw good etc.

If at all possible, I would try a couple different finishes and really spend some time (hours if not days) then make your decision. Maybe every saw maker has done this and arrived at different conclusions.

(09-14-2020, 03:37 PM)Pedder Wrote: Thanks for the kudos! What you want to know? We are doing it simple and long way: sand from rasp trough100, 120 150 180 240 320 400 600 up to 800 on all the woods and TruOil after that than some carbnaubawax and parrafin mix to pop up. Ebony the same up tp 800 than puppy oil. than 1000 1200 up to 1500, than blacked carnauba wax.

Ask Tom and Mike for their procedure.

Cheers
Pedder

(09-17-2020, 12:02 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: Adam, I think that this is a great topic, so no need to apologise. I recall when you were making saws ... oh, about 12 or so years ago. I would love to see a dovetail saw handle of yours. There are many very stylish handles around, but I wonder how much thought has gone into the actual ergonomics of the design, as opposed to simply copying an “established” design?

Regards from Perth

Derek

(09-17-2020, 02:23 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: .  For example, in the pictures of the 2 Lawyers saws in this thread, it appears the handles hang below the toothed edge.  That doesn't work for me personally.

(09-17-2020, 02:23 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Derek, from my perspective, I put a lot of work into handle designs.  I started making saws in 1999 or 2000. First saws were straight up copies of Seaton chest saws. But I built and tested and tested and built for years, tweaking the design as I went.  By the time I was offering saws for sale, I had prototypes with 1000s of dovetails on them.  The features of the handles were complicated by my own user requirements.  For example, in the pictures of the 2 Lawyers saws in this thread, it appears the handles hang below the toothed edge.  That doesn't work for me personally. When cutting half blind dts, I dig out the tails with the last few teeth at the heel. I also turn the saw around, man up and grab the blade, and pull it into that hard to chop tail area.