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+-- Thread: Hi, beginner with some questions. (/showthread.php?tid=7367920)
RE: Hi, beginner with some questions. - joe1086 - 03-02-2022
(02-28-2022, 07:56 PM)Leandre Wrote: As for the lowes and HP ripping down plywood, i did that when i built my fish tank stand but both places has "out of order" signs on them for a while.
Lowe's and HD panel saws work just fine around here but there's never anyone around to operate one. I have one of those 4 1/2" battery powered circular saws...comes in handy to break down a sheet it the parking lot and put the pieces in my SUV. You might put one of those on your shopping list.
RE: Hi, beginner with some questions. - adamcherubini - 03-02-2022
(03-02-2022, 02:36 PM)joe1086 Wrote: Lowe's and HD panel saws work just fine around here but there's never anyone around to operate one. I have one of those 4 1/2" battery powered circular saws...comes in handy to break down a sheet it the parking lot and put the pieces in my SUV. You might put one of those on your shopping list.
Agree. I have the little 18V Bosch circular saw, which is 6-1/2" (?) and really quite awesome. I feel like, if you are going to end up with a battery circular saw, why not get one with a track? And if you do that, why rush out and buy a table saw? If I were starting over, and I might, I think I'd choose the Makita track saw then maybe add a rough and tumble reconditioned bare circ saw for $150 using the same battery to save the plunge saw for track only. Then a decent vac.
I feel like the ww mags all say the table saw is the heart of the workshop, but its really not. That's just not a fact. And they are expensive. And they take up a lot of space. The track saw approach is half what that contractor (read small) Sawstop TS costs. You could get a lot of tools and capability for the cost of a single, maybe not that great, table saw.
No disrespect to anyone who has posted: I think we are giving bad advice. Conventional wisdom seems to be, buy the big powermatic cabinet saw (or equivalent). Don't buy small "starter" table saws.
If you want to build a lot of cabinets, the solution is a CNC pin router, not a table saw at all.
RE: Hi, beginner with some questions. - Tapper - 03-02-2022
(03-02-2022, 03:25 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Agree. I have the little 18V Bosch circular saw, which is 6-1/2" (?) and really quite awesome. I feel like, if you are going to end up with a battery circular saw, why not get one with a track? And if you do that, why rush out and buy a table saw? If I were starting over, and I might, I think I'd choose the Makita track saw then maybe add a rough and tumble reconditioned bare circ saw for $150 using the same battery to save the plunge saw for track only. Then a decent vac.
I feel like the ww mags all say the table saw is the heart of the workshop, but its really not. That's just not a fact. And they are expensive. And they take up a lot of space. The track saw approach is half what that contractor (read small) Sawstop TS costs. You could get a lot of tools and capability for the cost of a single, maybe not that great, table saw.
No disrespect to anyone who has posted: I think we are giving bad advice. Conventional wisdom seems to be, buy the big powermatic cabinet saw (or equivalent). Don't buy small "starter" table saws.
If you want to build a lot of cabinets, the solution is a CNC pin router, not a table saw at all.
Not just the woodworking mags, but 99.9% of everyone else who does woodworking. I get sheet goods and other longer material broken down at Lowe's and Home Depot on their panel and big radial arm saws. Then bring them home and use the factory edge to cut them to my desired dimension on the tablesaw.
Standing pat on the tablesaw. Haven't found a better or more convenient tool in either a small or larger shop. And I've had both.
Doug
RE: Hi, beginner with some questions. - adamcherubini - 03-02-2022
(03-02-2022, 06:16 PM)Tapper Wrote: Not just the woodworking mags, but 99.9% of everyone else who does woodworking. I get sheet goods and other longer material broken down at Lowe's and Home Depot on their panel and big radial arm saws. Then bring them home and use the factory edge to cut them to my desired dimension on the tablesaw.
Standing pat on the tablesaw. Haven't found a better or more convenient tool in either a small or larger shop. And I've had both.
Doug
Not arguing - do you have a track saw? Mine is not great and I love it. Its done everything I've asked of it. I think I have about $300 in it, not including batteries which I use for everything else. Is there anything you don't like about track saws? Its an obvious alternative, right?
I feel funny about saying "yeah great idea. Spend $2000 on a 1-3/4hp saw that can't rip a sheet of plywood in half". That seems entirely unacceptable to me.
RE: Hi, beginner with some questions. - Handplanesandmore - 03-02-2022
Lean,
Two questions:
Have you placed your order yet? If so, stop here, and skip the rest.
Are you for the long haul planning to build furniture and not just plywood cabinets and shelves? If no, stop here, and skip the rest.
If you're still reading: DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT GO FOR THE SAWSTOP. I mean not the contractor model. Go for the PCS which has a footprint similar to the contractor model. That would be the last table saw you'll ever need (provided no better saw comes to the market within the next 30 years). If money is an issue, borrow some from your lovely wife. Work a second job, remortgage your house, whatever..... Just joking.
Go to the festool forum, and search for discussions about so many people struggling with building furniture (not cabinets) because they relied on the track saw. Please dont repeat the mistake so many before you have made.
Simon
RE: Hi, beginner with some questions. - Handplanesandmore - 03-02-2022
(03-02-2022, 06:51 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: I feel funny about saying "yeah great idea. Spend $2000 on a 1-3/4hp saw that can't rip a sheet of plywood in half". That seems entirely unacceptable to me.
Adam,
If Lean gets a tablesaw and installs a jessem stock guides, he can rip a 4x8 with no problem, because the guides keeps the ply under control. My saw doesnt have it, but on more than one occasion, I saw it used in person to rip sheets and the result was as good as using a tracksaw. But an outfeed table was a must.
Simon
RE: Hi, beginner with some questions. - jteneyck - 03-02-2022
(03-02-2022, 03:25 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Agree. I have the little 18V Bosch circular saw, which is 6-1/2" (?) and really quite awesome. I feel like, if you are going to end up with a battery circular saw, why not get one with a track? And if you do that, why rush out and buy a table saw? If I were starting over, and I might, I think I'd choose the Makita track saw then maybe add a rough and tumble reconditioned bare circ saw for $150 using the same battery to save the plunge saw for track only. Then a decent vac.
I feel like the ww mags all say the table saw is the heart of the workshop, but its really not. That's just not a fact. And they are expensive. And they take up a lot of space. The track saw approach is half what that contractor (read small) Sawstop TS costs. You could get a lot of tools and capability for the cost of a single, maybe not that great, table saw.
No disrespect to anyone who has posted: I think we are giving bad advice. Conventional wisdom seems to be, buy the big powermatic cabinet saw (or equivalent). Don't buy small "starter" table saws.
If you want to build a lot of cabinets, the solution is a CNC pin router, not a table saw at all.
Oh, where are you getting your data? Track saws are great tools, but they are no substitute for a tablesaw. Try cutting something 1/2" wide, or 1/2" cubes, or cutting a rabbet or dado. No other single machine can do what a good TS can do short of a 4 or 5 axis CNC, and while it can do some things far faster other things, like those 1/2" cubes, would take some serious fixturing.
A CNC is a great option for cutting sheet goods, but it's not a replacement for a TS. Try cutting a bevel on a typical 3 axis machine. If you get a 4 or 5 axis machine, sure, but you better be making cabinets every day in order to pay for it.
Breaking down full sized sheets on a TS is a fool's and young man's game, unless you have a large saw, material handling, and infeed and outfeed tables, etc. I think I did it once or twice, then wised up and started breaking sheets down to rough size with a circular saw. Or get a track saw and cut the parts to finished size, but you still need a TS to put dados and rabbets in those parts unless you do it with a router.
A starter TS is better than no TS in my world, but the capability, safety, and enjoyment all increase as you move up to a true cabinet saw and even more so with a slider.
Of course, you don't need any power tools. Furniture was made for centuries with hand tools. Still is by a few folks. Me? Naw. I just bought a CNC.
John
RE: Hi, beginner with some questions. - Tapper - 03-02-2022
(03-02-2022, 06:51 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Not arguing - do you have a track saw? Mine is not great and I love it. Its done everything I've asked of it. I think I have about $300 in it, not including batteries which I use for everything else. Is there anything you don't like about track saws? Its an obvious alternative, right?
I feel funny about saying "yeah great idea. Spend $2000 on a 1-3/4hp saw that can't rip a sheet of plywood in half". That seems entirely unacceptable to me.
Yep, I think you're officially arguing, but that's OK. No, I don't have a track saw and have no plans to buy one. Ripping plywood is only ONE task a tablesaw can perform, with the proper setup, but I think you already knew this. In my case, it isn't even close to being on the "short list" of how I use my SS PCS. I cannot imagine trying to build things in a woodworking workshop without a tablesaw. Buy Sawstop technology only if you "absolutely and positively" want to prevent ever having a catastrophic injury on a tablesaw - YMMV.
As far as cost goes, here's my recommendation. Most (including me) started out with second hand equipment because I couldn't afford new tools. Do not pursue this hobby if you think it is going to be inexpensive - it is not, especially these days (but I think you already knew this also).
You can CHOOSE to use a track saw instead of a tablesaw if you like. My guess is that you are and will be in the extreme minority.
Doug
RE: Hi, beginner with some questions. - Bach1750 - 03-03-2022
Lean, sounds like you're probably going for a table saw - good choice I think, table saws and track saws are both fine for what they do, they're just different animals. I'm a little confused by suggestions you should take extravagant measures to avoid the SS contractors saw which I don't agree with. If true, can anyone provide specific examples of what Lean will be able to do on a PCS or similar saw that he won't be able to do on a contractors saw?
While I have no doubt the PCS provides added value, if you're on a budget, and like the technology you should feel confident the SS contractors saw is a fine choice. Only you can do the cost/benefit, but the contractors saw is very accurate and well made and will last many years. The CI wings, though very nice, are definitely not required, but the peace of mind the technology brings has had high value for me.
Also, welcome to the hobby, I hope you find as much reward in making things as I do; there's nothing like starting with an idea and a pile of raw materials, and then working through the process to make the (hopefully) wonderful project you first imagined. Enjoy.
RE: Hi, beginner with some questions. - Leandre - 03-03-2022
thanks everyone for the replies and the advice you are all giving this fletching wood worker!! really appreciate it.
I think im in the boat along with jteneyck. to me the table saw is more then just straight line cuts (although the initial question was about ripping 8x4 in a small garage) to me its a machine that can do so much more and for me to learn, i feel a table saw is the way to go. id like to get a track saw eventually for the rip and unusual cuts but for now i feel a table saw is better for me. the sawstop was really my wife wanting me to save my fingers if poop hits the fan. I initially went with a skilsaw jobsite saw to be mounted on the end of a 8x4 table
@Handplanesandmore despite the fact that it was the wife who suggested sawstop, im really into them now and as much as id like the the next step up. i just cant afford it. i know im getting the jessem stock guides for sure and the cost are already mounting high and i havent even bought any wood yet lol. in my head the contractor saw is a nice middle of the range saw for me to learn on and if i had extra money i think id rather get a nicer dust extractor then the harbor freight one. maybe in the future if i really get into this or actually make some money of it i can upgrade. i have not placed the order yet. was waiting to see if they still had the march-april promotions and they do not. so just waiting to clean the garage out first or i'll no where to put it.
@joe1086 you can do that? just rip up plywood in the carpark? i would thought it was not allowed..i didnt even think that was an option lol i do have a battery powered 6.5" circular saw
@Bach1750 thank you. i hope the hobby is as rewarding too. my heart is set on a sawstop now lol wife complains thought, why im always picking expensive hobbies. i also have a 180g reef tank. kinda wish i could took some of the cash from tank to put into woodworking but no regrets so far