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+-- Thread: Tub or no tub, that is the question? (/showthread.php?tid=7372250)
RE: Tub or no tub, that is the question? - sleepy hollow - 02-21-2023
(02-20-2023, 09:02 PM)Cabinet Monkey Wrote: From someone that’s been playing in luxury kitchen and baths as a consumer and provider all over the country for near on three decades - I can tell this:
Realtors will tell you you gotta have bath. Realtors will tell you they’re outdated and you don’t need one. Realtors are fickle , strange creatures and most most of them don’t really know squat about real estate. They’re great at being facilitators , personality counselors, and usually sales but they rarely have hard data at the micro level about what really sells a home. It’s more about “feel”. Sure , they can tell you a 5bedroom sells better than a 2 bed , or vice versa or they’ve sold this type of house more than that kind but but it only takes one sucker , um I mean buyer for your house to sell. Location and condition have more to do with it than whether you have master tub or master car wash -or- what brand you have. ...
CM,
Great discussion. Thank you for weighing in.
As for RE agents., years ago when I first was buying a home, I used to try to understand who the agent worked for - buyer or seller. Could not resolve that until finally I understood that the RE agent works for the RE agent. And that explains all the characteristics they exhibit that you descibed so well. It's about closing a deal for them first and foremost. They want two willing and able parties at a table signing the docs so they get their commission. Heck I am such a heretic that I have sold two houses by myself. Probably will do that with this one if that time comes and I am not too decrepit.
As for the tub and the hot water, I am planning to add a HWH in the suite to buffer the length of time for the current hot water to arrive (about 1 minute). But then how big should it be? I already have two 40 gal tanks that I plumbed in series (with valve logic to switch to parallel and operate off of one when the other gives up the ghost or needs repair). But no matter the size of the supply, hot water cools off quickly in a tub, so I had been looking at having a tub with a heater. Of course that means either heated whirlpool or heated air bubbles. The more I try to address the issues, the more I have to do and the more it will cost. All for a fixture that would rarely if ever be used that would sit in the sweet spot of the room rendering it unavailable.
So, it looks like we will eschew the tub and go for a cozy nook/escape area. THAT will get used daily I have no doubt.
As for recouping the cost, I respectfully disagree in my case as I will be doing all the work and expect to be able to do it for a fraction of the cost of a contractor. I am convinced that the price pre-remodel vs the price post-remodel will easily be +20K which is the max I expect to spend. This assumes a "normal market." But heck that amount will be lost in the noise given any continued rise in home values (or decline for that matter). BTW, to have a contractor do this space would probably cost $75-100K in this area. Insane, but that is what people will pay (or borrow) after being upsold. And I wholeheartedly agree that amount would not be recouped.
I could be wrong in my analysis here and I defer to your wisdom and experience, but it will cost me a whole lot less in any event.
I agree wholeheartedly that we should build to suit ourselves in the end. Since we really don't want a tub and the space can be made very useful to us and appealing to buyers without it, we'll pass on it. Instead we'll continue to pour our love and treasure in two sweet little girls who happen to be our grandchildren. We always recoup our investments there many times over
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RE: Tub or no tub, that is the question? - Cabinet Monkey - 02-23-2023
(02-21-2023, 09:17 AM)sleepy hollow Wrote: CM,
Great discussion. Thank you for weighing in.
As for recouping the cost, I respectfully disagree in my case as I will be doing all the work and expect to be able to do it for a fraction of the cost of a contractor.
I agree wholeheartedly that we should build to suit ourselves in the end. Since we really don't want a tub and the space can be made very useful to us and appealing to buyers without it, we'll pass on it. Instead we'll continue to pour our love and treasure in two sweet little girls who happen to be our grandchildren. We always recoup our investments there many times over
Well..............................ya got me there. Most people can't DIY or sell their home themselves. So if you're in that boat you'll see the savings on the bottom line no question. Especially if you can get it all done for $20k outa pocket.
Re: your hot water situation: a 5 gallon heater ought to be close to getting it done. But , it's a straight calculation. How long does it take hot water to arrive to the MB from the mechanical room? Then factor in how much draw you'll reg. use until it arrives. A faucet is 1 -2 gallons a minute, a carwash shower could use 2 to 10 gallons a minute depending on the fixture and how many features you run.
I always advocate on demand heaters and recirculating pumps for projects like these. They are very efficient, scalable, and never run out of hot water.
RE: Tub or no tub, that is the question? - sleepy hollow - 02-25-2023
(02-23-2023, 02:34 PM)Cabinet Monkey Wrote: Well..............................ya got me there. Most people can't DIY or sell their home themselves. So if you're in that boat you'll see the savings on the bottom line no question. Especially if you can get it all done for $20k outa pocket.
Re: your hot water situation: a 5 gallon heater ought to be close to getting it done. But , it's a straight calculation. How long does it take hot water to arrive to the MB from the mechanical room? Then factor in how much draw you'll reg. use until it arrives. A faucet is 1 -2 gallons a minute, a carwash shower could use 2 to 10 gallons a minute depending on the fixture and how many features you run.
I always advocate on demand heaters and recirculating pumps for projects like these. They are very efficient, scalable, and never run out of hot water.
CM,
Thank you for your response.
FYI, I am now leaning against any additional HWH. I timed the remaining working vanity faucet and it was 50 sec to full up hot water after sitting in the copper pipes overnight. That is < 1 gal. by my calculations using 3/4' supply which is actually about 60/40 3/4"to 1/2". So, I think that is on the edge of being acceptable, and not meriting the footprint, cost, maintenance and annoyance of adding another heater, especially without a tub. That time is acceptable for the shower I believe as most people turn it on and do something else before stepping in. Most people expect a lag in the shower, I think. Again will not be an issue at resale IMHO. Can be remedied with a POU unit in the vanity if an issue.
My next solicitations under separate threads will be about members' experiences with some of the materials I plan to use.
RE: Tub or no tub, that is the question? - crokett™ - 02-28-2023
Very late to the party but if you have a bathroom with another tub, the master doesn't need one. The reason you want at least one tub is potential resale to families with young kids. Our master doesn't have a tub, but we have 2 other bathrooms that have tubs. In fact the model home had a jetted tub in the master bath. We opted to add a closet to that area instead because it wasn't practical for bathing kids and we wouldn't be using it.
RE: Tub or no tub, that is the question? - sleepy hollow - 03-04-2023
(02-28-2023, 01:13 PM)crokett™ Wrote: Very late to the party but if you have a bathroom with another tub, the master doesn't need one. The reason you want at least one tub is potential resale to families with young kids. Our master doesn't have a tub, but we have 2 other bathrooms that have tubs. In fact the model home had a jetted tub in the master bath. We opted to add a closet to that area instead because it wasn't practical for bathing kids and we wouldn't be using it.
Thanks for the input, C.
The remodeled guest bath on the same floor gets great reviews from those who have see it, including the nice tub that is perfect for bathing little ones. So, we are covered. Pus there is one in the full bath in the finished basement. We have determined that the new Master will have no tub.
RE: Tub or no tub, that is the question? - Woodenfish - 03-05-2023
(02-28-2023, 01:13 PM)crokett™ Wrote: Very late to the party but if you have a bathroom with another tub, the master doesn't need one. The reason you want at least one tub is potential resale to families with young kids. Our master doesn't have a tub, but we have 2 other bathrooms that have tubs. In fact the model home had a jetted tub in the master bath. We opted to add a closet to that area instead because it wasn't practical for bathing kids and we wouldn't be using it.
Bath tubs are extremely dangerous for children and adults. Odd that the government who wants to come for your gas range is willing to let these antiquated slippery death trap bathtubs remain a household standard. I gave my child a shower when he was little. He absolutely loved it and we felt it was the safest thing to do for him. In our new home we tore the standard bathtub out years ago and converted it to another shower. When my elderly mother wanted a new home, my brother the contractor built it for her with a walk-in door less shower to keep her safe. Most Real Estate agents don’t know what the heck they are talking about and repeat old wives tales because that’s what people want to hear.
RE: Tub or no tub, that is the question? - crokett™ - 03-07-2023
(03-05-2023, 12:04 AM)Woodenfish Wrote: Bath tubs are extremely dangerous for children and adults. Odd that the government who wants to come for your gas range is willing to let these antiquated slippery death trap bathtubs remain a household standard. I gave my child a shower when he was little. He absolutely loved it and we felt it was the safest thing to do for him. In our new home we tore the standard bathtub out years ago and converted it to another shower. When my elderly mother wanted a new home, my brother the contractor built it for her with a walk-in door less shower to keep her safe. Most Real Estate agents don’t know what the heck they are talking about and repeat old wives tales because that’s what people want to hear.
If you leave your child unsupervised in a bathtub, then yes it can be dangerous. I said nothing about adults. It's a lot easier to wash a young child in a tub than a shower, especially if you aren't getting in the shower with them. Plus, the kid can't splash around and play in the shower. Neither of my kids wanted to take a shower until they were 8 or so. They were scared of the falling water. It didn't make much sense to me since they were both good swimmers, but... Most families with young kids (or those who are planning to have them) want at least one tub.
RE: Tub or no tub, that is the question? - Cabinet Monkey - 03-12-2023
(03-05-2023, 12:04 AM)Woodenfish Wrote: Bath tubs are extremely dangerous for children and adults. Odd that the government who wants to come for your gas range is willing to let these antiquated slippery death trap bathtubs remain a household standard. I gave my child a shower when he was little. He absolutely loved it and we felt it was the safest thing to do for him. In our new home we tore the standard bathtub out years ago and converted it to another shower. When my elderly mother wanted a new home, my brother the contractor built it for her with a walk-in door less shower to keep her safe. Most Real Estate agents don’t know what the heck they are talking about and repeat old wives tales because that’s what people want to hear.
Just what we need - more oversight by the nanny state.
People have bathed in tubs for centuries and the human race has survived just fine. They were around loooooooooong before showers.
Showers are dangerous too. So is electricity, your kitchen knives, the automobile you drive, and whole host of other stuff. You want to keep your family away from them, fine by me - but let's not create hysteria by preaching your unsubstantiated bias.