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+-- Thread: Maybe I should reconsider a segmented head (/showthread.php?tid=7376789)
RE: Maybe I should reconsider a segmented head - Roly - 09-27-2024
(09-27-2024, 08:21 AM)fredhargis Wrote: Here's what I got, this is a delta 22-680 planer...3 HP, 15", with a Byrd head. No load it runs at about 9.5 amps. I tried to read the start up draw but could not, it may have been so fast I couldn't see it but whatever the reason I couldn't make it out. Then I put a 10" wide x 6' long piece of ash through it removing about 1/16" of material (planer on slow feed speed) and while the readings bounced more than I thought they would between 11 and 14.5 amps, my guess is that 13 amps or so would have been the average. I'm not sure any of this is useful but maybe it gives you some sense of what to expect. I really wish I had done this before I switched the cutterheads so I could see the difference.
Your eyes are not fast enough to read it. The max inrush current lasts about a half cycle of power which can be up to 20 times the full load current, then for the next few cycles it goes down to about 8 to 10 times the full load current before going down to normal levels. Remember one cycle is 1/60 of a second. A lot of better meters have a inrush current setting. Overcurrents and fuses have time current curve to determine how fast they operate. Roly
RE: Maybe I should reconsider a segmented head - fredhargis - 09-27-2024
I'll try to find a 14" board in my stash and check the draw, I doubt I have anything that wide, I may have to glue something together.
Thanks Roly, I kinda figured I just wasn't fast enough to see it.
RE: Maybe I should reconsider a segmented head - jteneyck - 09-27-2024
OK, I went and ran that 9.5" oak board again. No load I got about 10 amps. 1/32" cut I got 11.5 amps and 1/16" started at around 14 - 14.5 and then settled down to about 13.5 amps. These data are pretty consistent with what you measured, Fred.
Scaling my data says the motor will draw about 16.5 amps with a full width (13.5") board with a 1/32" cut depth, and that's consistent with my experience, it's pulling nearly full load. Any greater cut depth is out of the question. So going to a Byrd head isn't practical unless I do something with the motor. I can't justify investing $2K into the machine just to save an hour of knife grinding IF I nick the knives. I think I'm at the end of the line here.
Thanks again for your help, Fred and Phillip.
John
RE: Maybe I should reconsider a segmented head - fredhargis - 09-28-2024
I guess this doesn't matter anymore, but I was rained in yesterday by Helene, so I glued up a red oak panel for another test. I wound up with a panel that was 14 1/4" wide and 30" long and about 1" thick. I took off .055" (Wixey reads decimels, so I was just shy of 1/16") and the load reading was about 18.5 amps, the upper reading was 20 and the lower reading was 16 something. So it appears that with heavy loads my planer is struggling, though after 20+ years I still haven't had a problem with it. The Byrd head has been on for at least 15 of those years. Well, if the OEM motor bites the bullet I do have the number of a USA made Leeson I can use.
RE: Maybe I should reconsider a segmented head - jteneyck - 09-28-2024
(09-28-2024, 06:39 AM)fredhargis Wrote: I guess this doesn't matter anymore, but I was rained in yesterday by Helene, so I glued up a red oak panel for another test. I wound up with a panel that was 14 1/4" wide and 30" long and about 1" thick. I took off .055" (Wixey reads decimels, so I was just shy of 1/16") and the load reading was about 18.5 amps, the upper reading was 20 and the lower reading was 16 something. So it appears that with heavy loads my planer is struggling, though after 20+ years I still haven't had a problem with it. The Byrd head has been on for at least 15 of those years. Well, if the OEM motor bites the bullet I do have the number of a USA made Leeson I can use.
I'd say you are at the limit, Fred. The good news is it's doing it. I'm at the limit with straight knives.
John
![[Image: AP1GczOPFGX-perSI6q8nZ_puPvP00NvRpHu21RH...authuser=1]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOPFGX-perSI6q8nZ_puPvP00NvRpHu21RHGc7agSi7LfWtU-fMxR-MjKMKpdxpcL75Jt7MNcc42k1xK_PvYSRAyTK4ZxtqgMvzqtwhFelrx7FFOc8MzGc1EWv0MWOH7vVGxkcvLBg9iNR5mc453WwBbw=w713-h653-s-no?authuser=1)
RE: Maybe I should reconsider a segmented head - jteneyck - 09-29-2024
I asked the folks at SMC about the issue. One person asked me to confirm the run capacitor was drawing current when the motor was running (it was). While I had access I took a photo of the motor name plate.
![[Image: AP1GczM7ipxOnbJUONh5-7hTfql2t3nLdoO1JdI0...authuser=1]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczM7ipxOnbJUONh5-7hTfql2t3nLdoO1JdI0y5rsY1sIrBD4Bs89ZEyyS3jBgKAW6JPubWTKnue6YAuHhdSQOIvdXl0AU6M88MnW95WBHwiieLTpq6tr-zR6ofKnIcqjgjPgGfz8KwWrHUjXh_2vt6N21w=w1460-h821-s-no?authuser=1)
I always had assumed that CAV 3 was some form of amps x volts = KW, but he said it was horsepower. I looked up the Italian word for horse; cavallo. Good grief. This still doesn't explain why it can't take off more than 1/32" at full width, considering 15" planers usually have a 3 hp motor, but it definitely seals the fate about installing a Byrd head on the machine with this motor.
Thanks again for your help to figure out what was going on here.
John
RE: Maybe I should reconsider a segmented head - jteneyck - 09-29-2024
(09-13-2024, 06:10 PM)barryvabeach Wrote: John, as to the power, I bought the Jet jointer planer with straight knives and later converted to segmented style. For the Jet conversion, they just changed the pulley size, so if you decide to do the conversion, that may be an option for you. I didn't minded honing the 12 inch blades ( never had a deep knick ) but hated setting the knives, thrilled to have converted.
You might have hit the nail on the head, Barry. I measured the planing speed and found it's 26 fpm! And it turns out that what I thought is a 3 KW motor is really 3 HP, so there's a double whammy. I looked up Grizzly's 15" planers. All have a 3 HP motor, whether straight knives or spiral head, and have dual speed capability of 16 and 28 fpm.
If I can find a smaller pulley for the motor and get the speed down to 16 - 18 fpm, I should be able to take a much heavier cut with straight knives, if desired. And to the root of this thread, it also should allow putting a Byrd head on it while maintaining the same depth of cut I can now take, maybe even a little more depending upon how much power it needs.
John
RE: Maybe I should reconsider a segmented head - EdL - 09-29-2024
Was your machine ever available with an insert head?
Ed
RE: Maybe I should reconsider a segmented head - jteneyck - 09-29-2024
(09-29-2024, 07:15 PM)EdL Wrote: Was your machine ever available with an insert head?
Ed
I don't think so. The fact that Byrd makes a head to fit it suggests an OE one was never an option.
John