(06-19-2018, 10:59 AM)hbmcc Wrote: I don't know the difference between 'blue' or 'white' paper steels. Even 'yellow' shows up in the sales blurbs. I don't know the status of Japan Woodworker after the Woodcraft group bought that company. There are several shops in Japan producing these tools. Matsumura is one. The refined faces (ground) you see in the first group is cosmetic. I would be leary of the large area of unprotected hard steel. You can snap the hard steel in normal use. I did going into one of the firs. 

For a first, price is always a good determinant. And unless they assure perfect preparation, you will wonder why all that money for the $150 tool didn't give you a ready-to-use chisel. User final tuning is synonymous with Japanese chisels. That preparation can be a lot of work. Look to set the hoop and flatten-hone the blade bevel yourself. The face may need to be flattened, too. A hardness of 64 almost demands diamonds to abrade the steel. 

Stu at Tools from Japan has a good amount of information on that region's chisels. It has been problematic to get service because this is a hobby for him. His knowledge is direct.  Here is a link: http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=312&zenid=48767a8ae72d87a64258f6fd6e5070a2

Oh, don't forget, Japanese tools are sized in metric, and even their own dimensions. It's one of the things that had me worried about mixing and matching several standards.

Ps. Tony, a Narex imitation is not the real thing. I have a Chinese knockoff with the hard lamina at about 1/32nd thickness, if that much; probably 1/64th. It looked real. It chipped in minor use. Go the full monty, John. It cost me a chunk of change getting real tools from Stu to overcome a bias that the burn of a $14 Grizzly knockoff caused.

(06-19-2018, 03:46 PM)Tony Z Wrote: Yeah, I didn't expect much, but I was curious!  Was almost comically large in compariso to the couple of true Japanese chisels I have,

(06-14-2018, 09:33 AM)Bibliophile 13 Wrote: There's some history behind this, too.

Back in the early days of the Hand Tool Renaissance (sometime around the 1980s) it was impossible to find well-made, Western-style chisels new.  But there were some Japanese makers that still made a high-quality chisel.  Add that to the fact that some of the early proponents of hand tools were influenced by Eastern styles and craftsmen, and some of them used Japanese-style chisels in their work, either because that's what their mentors used or because they were the best high-quality chisels they could get.  So naturally a lot of people who started getting interested in hand tools picked up Japanese chisels, either in imitation or on the recommendation of woodworkers they admired.

(06-20-2018, 11:25 AM)adamcherubini Wrote: Right.

I realize this is sort of a what-to-buy thread (nothing wrong with that), but my take is that technique, and sharpening technique go a long way to making any chisel enjoyable to use. Maybe we have said too much about metallurgy and metal working processes? Maybe not enough about technique and reasonable expectations?  We stick that sharp edge into wood and push or mallet it.  That screws up every chisels edge. I used to say I wanted to cut a full set of dovetails before I sharpened.  I now realize that's a stupid goal. Sharpening became an integral part of my woodwork. Not a separate tool maintenance procedure done in a separate room at periodic intervals (read: like your chisels are milling machines).

I've been recently using Stanley #60 (with the translucent yellow handles) sharpened on diamond stones. I'm enjoying them.  I would not want to build furniture with them, but they are ok for general purpose work.  I think a lot of folks regard these as the worst chisels ever made??? I think they are ok, but I sharpen constantly as I work. And I'm careful with my chisels I guess because I sharpened for so long without a grinder.

Oh, and I asked Roy once if he ever flattened his oilstones (I wanted to know how he did it) and he looked at me funny (like he does) and walked away. So...you can do good work with not much. My advice is not to sweat the choice.  Pick one and make it work.

(06-20-2018, 11:25 AM)adamcherubini Wrote: I've been recently using Stanley #60 (with the translucent yellow handles) sharpened on diamond stones. I'm enjoying them.  I would not want to build furniture with them, but they are ok for general purpose work.  I think a lot of folks regard these as the worst chisels ever made??? I think they are ok, but I sharpen constantly as I work. And I'm careful with my chisels I guess because I sharpened for so long without a grinder.

(06-20-2018, 01:33 PM)Tony Z Wrote: Since this is a thread about Japanese chisels, I need to post about one of the first chisels I acquired-maybe in the mid 70's and marked "made in Japan".  It is about 1-1/4" wide, red plastic handle and not much left of the blade.  Don't know the vintage of the steel and I doubt if the maker knew anything about the vintage either.  Took an edge very, very easily and kept it better than most carpenter chisels.  I bought it, in one of those dollar bins at a grocery store, with assorted other junk.

(06-21-2018, 11:06 PM)hbmcc Wrote: Don't laugh.... I find some real bargains in those bins--usually parts of table settings in a grocery store; maybe what Tony thought was really wasn't.
  But I have hundreds of feet of parachute cord for camping. You never have enough for hanging stuff between trees . . . even people going for a leak in the middle of the night. 

If you have a Woodcraft near, check their stock of "Maybe Japan" chisels. I was at one yesterday and they had a stack of sets and singles for a current June mailer ad.