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+-- Thread: Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news (/showthread.php?tid=7327525)
RE: Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news - Johnbro - 02-06-2017
(02-04-2017, 09:52 PM)JGrout Wrote: well that is the position of SS owners
the reason you see PM Delta and others available is more likely from guys passing or tiring of the hobby rather than people buying SS
Yes a few here and there are being sold but I would think more and more are looking at euro saws considering the money.
I know if I was looking that is where I go
Two interesting assertions without a any data to support either one. Go check your local tool dealers and see which cabinet saws are the best selling--I'm pretty sure you will find the answer is SawStop.
RE: Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news - fixtureman - 02-06-2017
(02-06-2017, 01:44 AM)Johnbro Wrote: Two interesting assertions without a any data to support either one. Go check your local tool dealers and see which cabinet saws are the best selling--I'm pretty sure you will find the answer is SawStop.
The reason may be that more hobbyist buy saws then the commercial shops.
RE: Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news - Admiral - 02-06-2017
(02-05-2017, 11:20 PM)Steve N Wrote: However the second link by the PTI completely makes my points for me, with research, and a point by point discussion of everything wrong with SS's approach to marketing. . . . . . . I just find a company trying to use the government to take out their competition a vile thing. I still would like to see a case where someone else has done the Gass thing, especially with power tools.
And the PTI link, essentially a diatribe against SS issued by a lobbying organization that lobbies the CPSC, and which PTI more than likely sent to the CPSC, is not a group of companies trying to "use the government to take out their competition," really??
RE: Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news - Steve N - 02-06-2017
Simply the PTI's response to Gass's attempt to block all TS competition with government help. Certainly you have seen this piece before if you have followed this sorted tale of Gass against Capitalism. Totally a response piece, and a very accurate summation, also why many believe it's why CPSC blocked Gass in the first round.
RE: Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news - Steve N - 02-06-2017
(02-06-2017, 01:44 AM)Johnbro Wrote: Two interesting assertions without a any data to support either one. Go check your local tool dealers and see which cabinet saws are the best selling--I'm pretty sure you will find the answer is SawStop.
I can only speak for what I have seen locally. Edward Mueller is the place to buy strong home owner, and commercial, from light to heavy machinery. Yes they sell SS, however they don't push them, and they make up a small % of total TS sales. Commercial shops are being forced to buy "safety TS's" of which SS has been thrown into the pot describing them. Those guys have to satisfy what their insurance says is "safe". If you go in there to buy a safe, insurance company approved commercial TS you will be shown any number of very safe Euro saws as Joe has already suggested. If you are a home owner you would have to ask specifically for a SS in order to see one. They would offer you a very safe PM, or Delta with a RK, and a full guard long before they would offer you a SS. Are they jaded SS haters, NO. They simply understand what the public wants, and by and large it doesn't want the SS. This is also why Griz sales on TS's is so strong. Delta sales suc on TS, because as a company the new Delta sux. PM are strong with the mustard paint crowd. You are believing "fake news" when you believe SS is the only saw selling in America. Absolutely none of the millions of used saws out there from before SS many of which are swapped and traded every year are ever counted in saws sold. America does not want a finger nanny. I will continue to use that term to describe them, as that is what you are buying, when you buy a SS. If you want one, that is free market, buy yourself one. I and millions of Americans choose not to, that is also free market.
RE: Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news - Admiral - 02-06-2017
(02-06-2017, 09:38 AM)Steve N Wrote: Simply the PTI's response to Gass's attempt to block all TS competition with government help. Certainly you have seen this piece before if you have followed this sorted tale of Gass against Capitalism. Totally a response piece, and a very accurate summation, also why many believe it's why CPSC blocked Gass in the first round.
Honestly, Steve, you don't get it. PTI's response is the other side of the same coin, both sides lobbying the government. It's the same thing. Do you think that if the PTI's members had the SS technology and wanted to promote it, they wouldn't be lobbying the CPSC, OSHA and everyone else in the government to mandate its use for all federally funded contractors??? Really, that's the system.
RE: Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news - fixtureman - 02-06-2017
(02-06-2017, 01:44 AM)Johnbro Wrote: Two interesting assertions without a any data to support either one. Go check your local tool dealers and see which cabinet saws are the best selling--I'm pretty sure you will find the answer is SawStop.
Are you saying that Sawstop sells more saws then all the other saws together That is like saying that Ford sells more pickups than al the other brands together.
RE: Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news - Tapper - 02-06-2017
(02-06-2017, 10:13 AM)Steve N Wrote: I can only speak for what I have seen locally. Edward Mueller is the place to buy strong home owner, and commercial, from light to heavy machinery. Yes they sell SS, however they don't push them, and they make up a small % of total TS sales. Commercial shops are being forced to buy "safety TS's" of which SS has been thrown into the pot describing them. Those guys have to satisfy what their insurance says is "safe". If you go in there to buy a safe, insurance company approved commercial TS you will be shown any number of very safe Euro saws as Joe has already suggested. If you are a home owner you would have to ask specifically for a SS in order to see one. They would offer you a very safe PM, or Delta with a RK, and a full guard long before they would offer you a SS. Are they jaded SS haters, NO. They simply understand what the public wants, and by and large it doesn't want the SS. This is also why Griz sales on TS's is so strong. Delta sales suc on TS, because as a company the new Delta sux. PM are strong with the mustard paint crowd. You are believing "fake news" when you believe SS is the only saw selling in America. Absolutely none of the millions of used saws out there from before SS many of which are swapped and traded every year are ever counted in saws sold. America does not want a finger nanny. I will continue to use that term to describe them, as that is what you are buying, when you buy a SS. If you want one, that is free market, buy yourself one. I and millions of Americans choose not to, that is also free market.
Red herring and ignores the facts. To contend that "the public doesn't want Sawstop" borders on ludicrous. If that were true Gass would have shut down long ago. To the contrary, his sales are strong for a good reason. This "finger nanny" thing you seem to be stuck on reveals your motivation. Haters gonna hate.
Doug
RE: Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news - Downwindtracker2 - 02-06-2017
Commercial shops buy big European sliders. That's if they want to be successful.
This in Canadian $, I noticed you pay a $1000 premium for a SawStop over other well made Tiawanese. Still I paid $2300 for a Unisaw in '92 , the Sawstop is $3600 in 2017. So they are not that expensive.
RE: Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news - AHill - 02-06-2017
DISCLAIMER: I'm not advocating that Bosch's Reaxx saw did not violate SS patents. As far as the law is concerned, it's pretty much a done deal it did.
The Power Tool Institute has a "Table Saw Facts at a Glance" page, where they discuss the SawStop technology, CPSC, and SawStop's attempt to license the technology to users. Too long to post here, but it's interesting reading from the perspective of PTI. PTI is definitely in Bosch's camp. The oppose mandating SS technology on all table saws.
http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/pti-pages/it-table-saw-facts.asp
A couple of salient "facts":
- SawStop's initial demand for royalties to use their technology was 8% of retail sales
- If CPSC mandates SS technology, they are mandating a design standard - not a performance standard