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+-- Thread: 3/4" shaper spindle spinning 1 1/4" bore cutters? (/showthread.php?tid=7085701)
3/4" shaper spindle spinning 1 1/4" bore cutters? - Kansas City Fireslayer - 08-30-2015
A while back I picked up a late 90's or early 2000's Delta 3 HP shaper with 1/2" and 3/4" spindles. This weekend I was able to buy some lightly used shaper cutters but they're 1 1/4" bore. There were some bushing included with the cutters for a 3/4" spindle. The cutters are mostly raised panel, rail and stile, and straight cutting (dado) cutters.
I've read that using 1 1/4" bore cutters on a 3/4" spindle and with only 3 HP isn't a good idea. Anyone care to share their knowledge or experience with this?
Re: 3/4" shaper spindle spinning 1 1/4" bore cutters? - Jonny Rocket - 08-30-2015
I don't think the HP makes any difference. I have a 2HP 1" spindle shaper and it will run 1-1/4" bore cutters just fine.
I think it really depends on the size of the cutter. 1-1/4" cutters offer a much better cutting angle because of their size, but they can be pretty massive for a Delta 3/4" spindle. More than anything, we aren't talking about a machine with massive bearings and a solid spindle. If you had a 3/4" spindle on a massive old shaper, it would be a different story. The Deltas don't offer as much support and there was a reason they sold a solid 1" cartridge and spindle for they machine.
I could see running the cope cut on the Delta, but I wouldn't put a panel raiser on it with a 1-1/4" bore.
Re: 3/4" shaper spindle spinning 1 1/4" bore cutters? - JGrout - 08-30-2015
Part of it depends on your knife diameter. I would caution against the use of a 6" diameter knife on most one or two speed 3 HP shapers. The knife is spinning too fast and the quality of the cut as well as the durability of the knife can be compromised
OTOH I use a couple of panel raising cutters that are 1 1/4" bore and 5" in diameter without an issue ever with T Bushings top and bottom. Also before I had a 1" diameter spindle for my present shaper ran cope and stick knives that are 4" in diameter stacked up to 4 knives on the spindle and a rub collar bearing underneath for pattern work that amounts to nearly 3" full stack . I also add as many bushings as required to fill the knives ( if stacked sets) on the spindle and have been doing so for the better part of 20 yrs on a 3 hp shaper.
The only additional info I can share is to make sure the spindle is truly perpendicular to the table and use the slowest speed (~7500rpm) and keep them as close tot the bottom of the spindle as you can
Joe
Re: 3/4" shaper spindle spinning 1 1/4" bore cutters? - TGW - 08-31-2015
Would it be possible to find a 1 1/4 inch spindle for it?....or to have one made by some local machinist?
3 hp is the same motor size as the spindle moulder on my European style combination machine. It has a 30 mm spindle which is pretty close to 1 1/4 inch. I use any normal cutterheads on it but it is very solidly built compared to your Delta and it has three speeds. 3hp is certainly on the small side but it will be enough for most jobs if you don't feed to fast.
30 mm and 1 1/4 " are pretty much industrial standards worldwide nowadays.
Re: 3/4" shaper spindle spinning 1 1/4" bore cutters? - JGrout - 08-31-2015
Quote:
Would it be possible to find a 1 1/4 inch spindle for it?....or to have one made by some local machinist?
I would strongly recommend against this. There is a good reason Delta never supplied an 1 1/4" spindle in this class
I know of one that is made (aftermarket) and with the tie rod configuration Delta uses I would not trust it
If that rod was torqued under load I could see a pretty wild rodeo in the ensuing seconds
While this is an industrial shaper I would classify it as light industrial or entry market
Re: 3/4" shaper spindle spinning 1 1/4" bore cutters? - tablesawtom - 08-31-2015
It has to do with the OD size of the cutter and the speed. the shaft could easily bend and it would not be pretty. At 10 grand it doesn't take much if it is unbalanced. It is like 1/2 and 1/4 shanks on a router bit. I know Grizzly makes a 1 " spindle for their 3 hp shaper. Check and see if Delta makes one. I do not know for sure but I would be surprised if they didn't. I would be be a little more corfortable with only a 1/4 sleeve verses 1/2. but there is a reason they made it a 1 1/4 bore in the first place. Personally I wouldn't even do a 1 inch diameter spindle, I would never be able to get comfortable with it. I have seen two much of that type of things happening in industry .
Tom
Re: 3/4" shaper spindle spinning 1 1/4" bore cutters? - JGrout - 08-31-2015
I am adding this just to keep things very clear
here are the parts for the interchangeable spindles pack you presently have
[/URL] Here is the 1" spindle pack for the same machine
There is one very notable difference in the construction of these two spindle sets and it is that the 1" spindle is not attached via a tie rod as the smaller ones are. that is why I am not recommending the use of an aftermarket 1 1/4" spindle in the existing 1/2- 3/4 spindle pack
Can you get the 1" spindle as an accessory today? I do not know, maybe someone has NOS laying around or ebay may have one or two but I am 95% positive it will not be via Delta parts service.
I suppose if you are inclined to look you may eventually find one.
Joe
Re: 3/4" shaper spindle spinning 1 1/4" bore cutters? - Greg Jones - 09-01-2015
I've not used one myself, but Richard at A&E Tool offers a Grizzly 1" spindle kit that he modifies to work in the Delta HD shaper. Here is the link.
Re: 3/4" shaper spindle spinning 1 1/4" bore cutters? - JGrout - 09-01-2015
I am aware of that spindle and I am not a fan of it's use.
this is one case of use it at your own risk
Re: 3/4" shaper spindle spinning 1 1/4" bore cutters? - Jonny Rocket - 09-01-2015
JGrout said:
I am aware of that spindle and I am not a fan of it's use.
this is one case of use it at your own risk
Just to reiterate Joe's point:
This: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Delta-Rockwell-1-Shaper-Spindle-/381165239898?hash=item58bf37fe5a
And this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-dia-X-4-LONG-s...=item23453b4f27
Are not the same thing. The upper should be installed in a cartridge with bearings and a pulley like Joe's posted diagram and it is run as a complete unit. If you want to install a 3/4" spindle, you would remove the entire bearing cartridge assembly and install one setup for drawbars.