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A few more kitchen cabinet questions. - jussi - 10-25-2015
1. Narrowing down the hinge selection. I'll probably stick with Blum and the doors will be inset. Blum seems to have several models for inset doors however. Also I've seen some reviews where the hinges (Blum brand) didn't hold up very well and pulled the screws out after a year or 2 of use. Is there a criteria you look for to make sure they will be durable.
2. When installing face frames do you make them completely flush to the outside walls of the carcass. In regards to the top and sides I mean. The bottom will be flush to the inside base. OR do you have them sit proud a tiny bit?
3. When using prefinished plywood do you pre finish the face frames first before installing? If so, is it advisable to finish the face frame parts before attaching them together.
4. I plan to rabbet the back of the sides and glue and staple in 1/2" pre finished plywood. Do I need to sand off a bit of the plywood to get the glue to stick?
Re: A few more kitchen cabinet questions. - Leinie - 10-25-2015
If the screws are coming loose it's not a Blum issue, it's an installation issue or a user issue. You said not holding up- is it just the screws or something about the hinge not holding up ? I've never seen a Blum hinge fail in any way.
For those face frames- if they are proud of the vertical dividers by a 32nd it won't hurt anything, but it will reduce your adjustment range by that same amount.
Re: A few more kitchen cabinet questions. - Paul K. Murphy - 10-25-2015
1- If you're using euro-style hinges the name Blum is the criteria. Among that type, Blum is the best. Using 5 mm system screws can help with greater withdrawal resistance. Euro hinges are inherently weak. Back in the day, when I manufactured cabinets, I didn't know that. Now that I maintain cabinets, now that I am part of the entity that is a cabinet consumer, I know that they are weak. For a home, they are fine. For a firehouse, they are inadequate.
You will be fine with Blum.
2- Make it flush for a really neat look. This means your FE to stile joints have to be tight.
3- Mask. Mask, and finish last.
4- No.
Re: A few more kitchen cabinet questions. - JGrout - 10-25-2015
jussi said:
1. Narrowing down the hinge selection. I'll probably stick with Blum and the doors will be inset. Blum seems to have several models for inset doors however. Also I've seen some reviews where the hinges (Blum brand) didn't hold up very well and pulled the screws out after a year or 2 of use. Is there a criteria you look for to make sure they will be durable. if the screws are pulling out they are in melimine cabinet doors and not installed with inserts. you have nothing to worry about in your case
2. When installing face frames do you make them completely flush to the outside walls of the carcass. In regards to the top and sides I mean. The bottom will be flush to the inside base. OR do you have them sit proud a tiny bit? I make the sides proud by 1/4" for scribing purposes and even against an open end I prefer the FF to be over///////// the top is flush
3. When using prefinished plywood do you pre finish the face frames first before installing? If so, is it advisable to finish the face frame parts before attaching them together. I sure would why do you want over spray or to mask off the prefinished wood??
4. I plan to rabbet the back of the sides and glue and staple in 1/2" pre finished plywood. Do I need to sand off a bit of the plywood to get the glue to stick? your rabbet has two surfaces one cut one not and you are stapling the backs on. you do not need to clean the ply; it will be a static back mechanically attached
Re: A few more kitchen cabinet questions. - Sparetime - 10-31-2015
2. When installing face frames do you make them completely flush to the outside walls of the carcass. In regards to the top and sides I mean. The bottom will be flush to the inside base. OR do you have them sit proud a tiny bit?
If you leave the bottom of the cabinet proud of the face frame it will give you a very nice door stop for the bottom at least. This is really only for an inset door, overlay it will not matter. A iron on edge band is available in birch. The edge band will need to be applied to the bottom of the cabinet to hide the layers of plywood. it can be finished to match the pre-finished ply. You will have to make the bottom of the cabinet 1/32 or so narrower to allow for the edge band.
3. When using prefinished plywood do you pre finish the face frames first before installing? If so, is it advisable to finish the face frame parts before attaching them together.
I have the very same question. It will be much easier to finish the backs of the face frame before installation. However, I'm worried about getting the glue to stick and hold everything together. Since I'm painting, I could face nail the face frames on, and then fill the holes. Or I could use biscuits with cuts in the face frame and cabinet carcass.
4. I plan to rabbet the back of the sides and glue and staple in 1/2" pre finished plywood. Do I need to sand off a bit of the plywood to get the glue to stick?
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No, but why not dado the back in. Leave 1/4 inch behind. The dado will not be any more work than the rabbet.
Re: A few more kitchen cabinet questions. - jussi - 10-31-2015
Maybe I'm missing something, but what is the advantage of a dado over a rabbet? With a dado you lose that 1/4" plus another 1/2 - 3/4" for nailing blocks.
Re: A few more kitchen cabinet questions. - Paul K. Murphy - 10-31-2015
I'm not saying I'd do it, but a dado would allow you to stage a plank on the wall to assist in mounting the cabinet. I might do it if the cabinet was heavy, and I knew I'd be alone for the installation. A larger margin, a thicker plank, and a French cleat would be possible.
Naturally, each of these options are available for a price. The price you pay is the loss of compartment space inside the cabinet.
Re: A few more kitchen cabinet questions. - jussi - 10-31-2015
Good points. Especially regarding the French cleat. It would be a little cleaner look inside without the screws. But the point is moot as I have already cut and dado/rabbeted the sides.
I have a follow up question. How do you handle the bottoms and face frames of Upper corner cabinets. I hadn't really thought of it but they're a little more tricky to get the face frames 90 degrees and flush with the adjacent cabinet. I was looking online and am leaning to following this guy's example. The pic is for a lower and has a lazy susan but I don't see why it can't be used for an upper with shelves only. I can't see how the bottom is cut but I'm guessing it's notched as to follow the ff. Thoughts?
For the bottom I was planning on doing a Pie cut cabinet and the cuts see more straight forward.
Re: A few more kitchen cabinet questions. - Paul K. Murphy - 10-31-2015
That example is a good one.
A good plan is for the actual shape of the bottom panel to take up that "missing space" between the vertical panels. I think you said that, albeit with different words.
I construct my corner units a little different than that, but not worth going into long descriptions.
Re: A few more kitchen cabinet questions. - ruffcutt - 11-01-2015
jussi said:
Good points. Especially regarding the French cleat. It would be a little cleaner look inside without the screws. But the point is moot as I have already cut and dado/rabbeted the sides.
I have a follow up question. How do you handle the bottoms and face frames of Upper corner cabinets. I hadn't really thought of it but they're a little more tricky to get the face frames 90 degrees and flush with the adjacent cabinet. I was looking online and am leaning to following this guy's example. The pic is for a lower and has a lazy susan but I don't see why it can't be used for an upper with shelves only. I can't see how the bottom is cut but I'm guessing it's notched as to follow the ff. Thoughts?
For the bottom I was planning on doing a Pie cut cabinet and the cuts see more straight forward.
That picture is of some Cabinets I build and posted pictures of here on WoodNet a few years ago.
Yes, the deck of the cabinet is cut out for the FF. I got the idea from Bill Hylton's illustrated Cabinetmaking book.