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+-- Thread: Your thoughts on this type of face Frame & Door construction? (/showthread.php?tid=7323275)
Your thoughts on this type of face Frame & Door construction? - jgourlay - 09-28-2016
For our anniversary wifey asked for me to redo the bathroom. I'm a 'fine jewelry box' guy not an 'architecture' guy but she specifically wants *ME* to do it. Step one is to replace the current mdf/plywood 'cabinet' with solid walnut. The current cabinet is essentially a 36" x 27" plywood face frame with 2 overlaid MDF doors and center divider.
My proposal is to 1: remove the doors and center divider, 2: build face frame with 2 inset frame/panel doors, and 3: from the backside screw the new face frame assembly to the old ply wood face frame. 'Screwing' would happen after completely stripping the paint, and I may decide to go crazy and glue it too. Do you see any issues here?
If I were doing this for a bookshelf that was movable and going into the will, I'd use all mortise/tenon joinery. I really (REALLY) don't want that here. I just can't spend that kind of time for something that will only be appreciated when a guest is sitting on the crapper. "Showing the love" would be completely negated by buying something like a Kreg jig.
What I did for the face frame was to screw through the rail into the stile with glue between rail/stile. I know end grain to long grain glue joint is weak but the glue is just there to hide the joint and prevent any motion. The 2 screws per joint are long and properly used to prevent future splitting etc. Currently it looks great and seems pretty strong. Because I'm going to screw this to an already strong plywood frame, I'm confident the frame can hold the doors (pretty light) for the duration without those joints compromising.
My question is this. If those doors are only going to get opened twice a week or so, will this same construction last for....1 year, 5 years, 20 years? Assume I will size the center panel properly so expansion won't force the joint apart. Appearance won't be an issue: where the screw heads are will be plugged with matching plugs and on the surface you will only see if you are kneeling down to be eye level with the door side.
RE: Your thoughts on this type of face Frame & Door construction? - JGrout - 09-28-2016
I expect it will hold up for a very long time as in years and years. it is surprising to me that more do not use this technique for little used doors, using glue is actually recommended using screws so keep on doing that as well And size the panel properly as you already said you would
Joe
RE: Your thoughts on this type of face Frame & Door construction? - MKepke - 09-28-2016
The only issue I can think of is that by overlaying a face frame onto an existing cabinet you make the cabinet that much deeper, which may cause a knock-on effect with your countertop.
I would run a couple screws through the old face-frame into the new stiles carrying the hinges for the new doors - just for overkill.
I wouldn't bother gluing the old faceframe to the new - you might decide to re-remodel eventually.
-Mark
RE: Your thoughts on this type of face Frame & Door construction? - Bob10 - 09-28-2016
why not just pull the old face frame off and install the new one on the old box? I just did the opposite due to a rotted out sink base Top is the new box the bottom is painted and install of granite started. That was done in poor lighting on a cell phone
![[Image: rebuilt%20cab_zps4qohv1td.jpg]](http://s166.photobucket.com/user/Bobluciano/media/rebuilt%20cab_zps4qohv1td.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMG_1771_zpslgvusxqa.jpg]](http://s166.photobucket.com/user/Bobluciano/media/IMG_1771_zpslgvusxqa.jpg.html)
RE: Your thoughts on this type of face Frame & Door construction? - jgourlay - 09-29-2016
Mark, thanks, that's what I'll do
Joe, thanks for the confirmation.
those look nice! In this case, there isn't really a 'box'. The old face frame is screwed into some boards which were themselves screwed into the drywall. This looks to me like one of those situations where less intervention is better.
RE: Your thoughts on this type of face Frame & Door construction? - rwe2156 - 10-03-2016
It will work, but better check your countertop overhang before doing this.
RE: Your thoughts on this type of face Frame & Door construction? - jgourlay - 10-03-2016
(10-03-2016, 09:53 AM)rwe2156 Wrote: It will work, but better check your countertop overhang before doing this.
Yep, thanks for the caution. We haven't ordered the countertop yet. I remember reading in this forum that the mason wants to have everything in place and then come measure, so we should be able to take that into account.
RE: Your thoughts on this type of face Frame & Door construction? - Cooler - 10-06-2016
(09-28-2016, 11:51 PM)Bob10 Wrote: why not just pull the old face frame off and install the new one on the old box? I just did the opposite due to a rotted out sink base Top is the new box the bottom is painted and install of granite started. That was done in poor lighting on a cell phone
What's going on with this window frame?
In my house the previous owner had builder quality cabinets installed. The face frame and the doors are solid oak; the boxes and drawers are vinyl faced particle board.
One of the drawers has fallen apart and I just built a new one and I am awaiting the finish to cure. I will end up replacing all the drawers.
My point is, if your cabinets are made from this same material the boxes may be in poor condition and removing the face frames may create new problems when you try to refit to the particle board boxes.
RE: Your thoughts on this type of face Frame & Door construction? - jgourlay - 10-06-2016
In this room the 'cabinet' isn't really a cabinet. It's a two toe kick height boards with a board nailed to it (the bottom), then 'plates' of wood nailed into the studs. The face frame is nailed into the 'bottom' and the 'plates'. Is actually very sturdy and made from a pretty good grade of plywood. Removing that face frame won't from what I can tell, do anything useful and risks tearing stuff up. On the other hand, with some cutouts to clear hinges, it's a perfect platform on which to screw the face frame I'm making.
As a bonus, the current doors are overlay while my doors are inset. Thus, nailing one to the other won't really add more than 1/4" of thickness, if that.