+- Woodnet Forums (https://forums.woodnet.net)
+-- Thread: why are recessed led downlights cheaper? (/showthread.php?tid=7328077)
Pages:
1
2
why are recessed led downlights cheaper? - EricU - 02-19-2017
I would like to put in a batch of LED downlights in junction boxes. The lights made for that application cost about $20. The recessed lights made to go in a can, OTOH, cost $10-12. I'm at a loss to figure out why. I was looking at Cree, and it seems all of their downlights are meant to go in a can. Seems that the actual size of the module isn't any different, because the surface mount/j-box compatible stick out from the ceiling some, whereas the ones that go in a can are recessed.
Am I missing a product somewhere?
RE: why are recessed led downlights cheaper? - daddo - 02-19-2017
Perhaps it's consumer manipulation. When they want to steer you to s product, the first thing to do is lower the cost.
Perhaps the product isn't selling and they want to move it.
RE: why are recessed led downlights cheaper? - woodhead - 02-19-2017
How do you put a light in a junction box???
Al
RE: why are recessed led downlights cheaper? - Roly - 02-19-2017
They make led fixtures like s surface mount ceiling light that mount to a junction box. As far as cost I would think a lot less of the surface mounts are sold compared to the can conversion ones. Roly
RE: why are recessed led downlights cheaper? - Robert Adams - 02-19-2017
The surface mount ones that use a j box are a fairly new product compared to the can light led. The can light ones are easier to build because you have a ton of room to use. Also the can light units have allot more volume of air for cooling. The belief that leds don't create heat is incorrect. They produce heat but not from light radiation.
The surface mount versions are good for closets or other places that the light isn't really visible but I wouldn't want them in my kitchen because they usually look like a wort on the ceiling. Also probably another reason for the higher price is that you would mainly use them in closets and you aren't buying nearly as many as you would can lights.
But the big reason would be numbers. Way higher demand for leds for can lights.
What is odd is that can housings are complicated to build and still only cost $5 while a metal box is under $1... Unfortunately can housings are still made like they always have been they haven't really made a true led version which should be much smaller and compact making install easier.
RE: why are recessed led downlights cheaper? - woodhead - 02-19-2017
Didn't pick up on the fact that it is surface mounted. Dimmable costs more.
Al
RE: why are recessed led downlights cheaper? - Robert Adams - 02-19-2017
(02-19-2017, 11:03 AM)woodhead Wrote: Didn't pick up on the fact that it is surface mounted. Dimmable costs more.
Al
True but more of the can light replacements are dimmable now. The j box ones are pretty new on the market. They weren't even available locally until aabout 8 months ago. Course HD and Lowes still have tons of t 12 bulbs and fixtures here. No menards unfortunately.
RE: why are recessed led downlights cheaper? - Snipe Hunter - 02-19-2017
I've put in some of the dimmable Cree lights in cans. I believe they were about $20 a pair. They're in a 10x10 laundry room and do put out enough light. My only issue is that they are colorless... like a plasma torch. Its not bad once you get used to it but it isn't a cheery warm glow. Costco sells a pair for $17.99 and I think I'll try them also. We have the GE LED bulbs in the vanity lights. They're a little warmer and very bright at 760 lumens each... at only 10w ... really too bright. It's kinda like getting punched in the eyeballs when they come on.
RE: why are recessed led downlights cheaper? - EricU - 02-20-2017
I have wondered about the heat dissipation, but the can retrofit lights look the same to me as the ones that fit in the j-box. I have 8 of the surface mount lights in my kitchen and 2 in my family room. I suppose if you stared at them you could convince yourself they don't look as good as the recessed one, but when it comes to saving so much money on cans, I think I will get over it. Actually, the bezel of the 4" ones I have in the kitchen are set back a little bit from the edge of the ring, so they have a recessed appearance.
Granted, they don't fit in the old-work 4" j-boxes unless they are at the end of a run, but they do fit in the new work j-boxes. And I'm just going with square boxes in the basement. I guess I should look at it as saving $20 on the can instead of paying an extra $8 on the light. Seems to me that going after new construction is worth some $$ to the manufacturers, but maybe they figure people are still putting up cans.
I have to say that if I made my living selling cans, I'd be in a bit of a panic right now. Builders aren't going to spend $20 on a can when they can spend a couple of bucks on a j-box, and it looks good enough.
I replaced a couple of cans in my family room with leds in j-boxes. That was for air infiltration, and I discovered that we were lucky that the lights didn't burn down the house back in the days before CFLs, the paper on the insulation was burned. Only problem is that the LEDs are way brighter than the spots that were in there before. I'm probably going to have to put a dimmer on that circuit. I used Phillips LEDs that HD sells for $20. Probably go with those in my basement if I can't find anything else. It's mostly utility lighting down there, the more light the better. I'm also planning on putting one of those in place of a regular light in the upstairs hallway. Hopefully the j-box is big enough.
RE: why are recessed led downlights cheaper? - Robert Adams - 02-20-2017
IC cans are $5 a piece and led trims are as low as $10 these days. That's $15 a light or more like $22 with a better led. Which is still less than the box mounted led.
Now cans can be much more expensive if you are buying them at the borgs and you don't have a menards (which has them for much less) or you don't buy them from an electrical supply. Retrofit cans can be pricey at the borgs.
I'm not a fan of the look of the box mounted ones but if they were cheaper I'd put hem in closets and other places where they wouldn't stick out. Now the few I have seen available are bulky but give it little bit and I expect they will get thinner.
I much prefer installing a box in a ceiling than I do putting in a can so hopefully they will get more popular and lower in price as well as thinner. It seems every time I put in a can there is is a ceiling joist in the way or the can hits hits a roof rafter near the edge of of a wall...
Oh and as for the Costco led trims I bought them back when I did the kitchen. They are 1100 lumens but they are way way too yellow for a kitchen. Not really really a big deal as the under and over cab lights are our main lighting in the kitchen and they are a whiter light. If you really need light you can turn on the cans in addition and turn up the dimmer and do surgery in the kitchen... The color of the cabinet lights do help to slightly cover the yellow of the cans. The Costco ones were $17 at the time and the alternatives were over twice that then. I really prefer the ones we use in fast food restaurants as they are nice and white.
For any work area stick with 4100k or higher as yellow light discolors and is hard on the eyes after a bit.