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The hunt for wood - wood-chips - 07-25-2017
Today I went to get wood for a few projects. I was not pleased with what I found.
I was buying 8 quarter for a maple workbench top, a small side table in red oak, 4 quarters red oak quarter sawn for vertical blinds (to re-saw) and a piece of cherry for picture frames. The wood supply store is well stocked and has a good selection of species. The store is about 1/3 the size of an average Walmart. I haven’t shopped there in a few years and in the past I have been pleased. So I was expecting to find good quality for what I needed.
I was disappointed to say the least. I started with the maple in 8 quarter. There was a pallet stacked about 3 feet high. I thought oh good, lots to cherry pick. One of the guys there helped me go through the pile, from front to back. I managed to get enough boards that were “acceptable” to make the top.
Next was the flat sawn 4 quarter red oak for the table. Brand new pallet, 3 feet tall. I got my hopes up, thinking this will be an easy score for the few boards I need. Wrong, I went through 2/3s of the pallet and found enough “acceptable” boards to make the table.
Because I had to hunt and take what I could find I ended up with more wood, waste, than I needed, simply because those were the only boards that were “acceptable”.
Four quarter, quarter sawn red oak was next. I had almost a full pallet to go through. Again no joy; bowed, twisted, split/cracks, defects, cut wild and knots. I couldn’t even find one good board in the bunch and I needed a minimum of 8 boards 4 inches wide. I abandon the search.
Finally on to the cherry, I only needed one good board. There was a half pallet. I thought it should be easy to find ONE good board in the pile. Well, there was just ONE good board in the pile. Sap wood, bowed, defects, knots, cracks.
Well when I finished I asked the guy helping me. I said you know for the most part everything looks like seconds thirds and worse. He said well you are right. I said I’ve heard that hardwoods are being shipped to China by the boat load. He said you’re right. They’ll take any and everything no matter the cost.
So at least here in the west, western Nevada, the pickings are pretty slim. I realize the east and south has much more in the way of hardwoods, but the trickle down here is pretty bad.
What are others seeing in other states/parts of the US?
RE: The hunt for wood - packerguy® - 07-25-2017
Suppose it helps being near the forests, especially on the right side of the mountains at least.
I never have an issue. I buy 1500-2000bf of #1 cherry a year....and while I sort, I easily take away wood with no sap, maybe 1 or 2 knots per board, and 4"-11" all day long, for $1.50-$2/bf
But when I buy mesquite, its like pulling teeth and its $$$ up here in MN.
Agreed that China does buy up veneer logs but I think it mainly effects walnut IMHO. Good luck finding beautiful 12" walnut boards, commercially. The last time I bought any commercial walnut had to be almost 7-8 years ago. Independent mills and barn finds. Again, being close to the woods is a good thing.
RE: The hunt for wood - ianab - 07-26-2017
Interested to know what grade they advertised the wood as?
The NHLA rules, while a bit complicated, lay out exactly how much "defect" is allowed in any board. It doesn't guarantee the board will be defect free, just the % that's usable. Something like 83% of a board has to be be "clear" for it to make FAS grade. It also states how many in a stack can "fail", something like 5% can be "accidentally" below grade, and the pack is still OK. It also means that EVERY board in a stack of FAS could have some "defect", and the pack still passes grade.
So did the boards meet the Grade? BTW, sapwood, mineral stain and gum streaks aren't considered defects in the grading rules. Knots, splits, holes etc are.
Now it would be wonderful if you could open up a tree, and just saw dozens of perfect clear boards, but that's NEVER the case. Better logs give you a better percentage of higher grade boards, but even then there is no guarantee they are defect free.
Chinese buying "veneer" logs isn't really affecting that, as veneer grade logs aren't going to be sawed into boards anyway, well not by any commercial mill. Simple economics. Saw this log into $500 of really good FAS lumber, or sell the whole raw log to the veneer mill for $1,000? A small local operation might mill a log like that if they don't have the contacts to sell it, so you can luck into some good stuff occasionally, but they have the other 2 logs that came from the tree as well, and they wont be as good.
Also, if a mill has a specialised market for the very best clear wood, you can be 100% sure they are going to pull those from the FAS stack before it goes out. The rest of the stack still makes the grade rules, just it doesn't have the "cream" any more.
Now I don't buy wood, but running a mill, and getting to dissect logs, you get an idea of how the log quality relates to the % of quality boards. And even with "good" logs, the % of perfect boards is depressingly low. Hence the "good" stuff only needs to be 83% usable.
RE: The hunt for wood - wood-chips - 07-26-2017
(07-26-2017, 04:05 AM)ianab Wrote: Interested to know what grade they advertised the wood as?
There is no advertising as to the grading. Both here and in other locations in one of the larger cities in central California it's the same as far as availability and grade. It's a what you see is what you get.
For the most part I live in the desert region of the US. The amount of hardwood growth in the west pales in comparison to the east, hence the disparity of hardwood availability. Consequently we here in the west are at the end of the hardwood food chain.
RE: The hunt for wood - Herb G - 07-26-2017
I went to high school with a guy who's family was in the barn reclamation business.
They were either called out to or bid on old barns that needed to be moved or demolished.
Then, they would carefully take apart every barn, number the wood, and remove it from the site.
A lot of the wood beams were sold to places in New England. A lot also went straight to Baltimore
and were shipped off to China. Some of the wood was 200 years old when it was cut down.
Huge beams were stacked in their lumber yard as far as the eye could see.
Chestnut, walnut, Honey Locust, old growth Yellow Pine, you name it.
When the big tobacco buy out happened here 20 years ago, they torn down probably 500
old tobacco barns. It was boom time for sure for their business.
Now, all that wood is gone, and the likelihood of getting any more like it are slim & none.
Last time I saw the guy, he had sold off all his equipment and had sold his property off too.
End of an era, I suppose.
RE: The hunt for wood - ianab - 07-26-2017
Quote:There is no advertising as to the grading. Both here and in other locations in one of the larger cities in central California it's the same as far as availability and grade. It's a what you see is what you get.
The wood's been graded at some point, but if they don't tell you the grade, then it's probably fair to assume it's the lowest, all the good boards have been sorted out already, and sold at a premium. That's more of a supplier problem, they are buying the cheapest grade packets, and someone else is paying top dollar for the good stuff.
If I order in American Oak or Cherry wood here in NZ it's expensive, but it's FAS grade. They don't bother shipping the junk 1/2 way across the world.
Got any smaller operations that can supply you with better grade local wood? Might not get the same species you are wanting, but that opens up all sorts of new options, especially if you get urban salvage wood from "exotic" species.
RE: The hunt for wood - Steve N - 07-26-2017
No troubles at all with wood here in SW Ohio. But we have woods everywhere, assortment of species, and well I won't rub it in. and talk about prices
RE: The hunt for wood - wood-chips - 07-26-2017
(07-26-2017, 03:24 PM)ianab Wrote: Got any smaller operations that can supply you with better grade local wood? Might not get the same species you are wanting, but that opens up all sorts of new options, especially if you get urban salvage wood from "exotic" species.
None close by. The next closest place is over 3 hours away. It's where I used to shop before I moved to Nevada. Both had ok selections but finding enough for a project was always a challenge. However they have a great selection of full 3/4" hardwood plywood.
RE: The hunt for wood - ianab - 07-26-2017
I can understand the problem, getting hardwood locally is difficult as all the larger mills only deal with pine.
Main reason I got into sawmilling was to source my own wood, but that's a whole other rabbit hole to go down.
RE: The hunt for wood - Bob10 - 07-26-2017
You should look up Don Juvet he was closer to you than most and seemed not to have much trouble getting what he needed