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Frame and Panel - Bozz - 11-10-2017
In frame and panel construction, how tightly should the panels fit in the grooves? I’m using cherry hardwood and plywood, and was ASTONISHED at how thin the 1/4 cherry ply is. I have an undersized plywood router bit but there is still way too much wobble. I bought a 7/32 bit, better but still not great. Bought a 3/16 and the panel fits snugly, so I figure that’s where it ought to be. Shouldn’t have to worry about expansion. What is the norm?
Thanks!
RE: Frame and Panel - packerguy® - 11-10-2017
(11-10-2017, 09:42 PM)Bozz Wrote: In frame and panel construction, how tightly should the panels fit in the grooves? I’m using cherry hardwood and plywood, and was ASTONISHED at how thin the 1/4 cherry ply is. I have an undersized plywood router bit but there is still way too much wobble. I bought a 7/32 bit, better but still not great. Bought a 3/16 and the panel fits snugly, so I figure that’s where it ought to be. Shouldn’t have to worry about expansion. What is the norm?
Thanks!
Ive noticed more and more how my 1/4" plywood is thinner and thinner. It use to be darn near 1/4" true and it was ACX sanded ply. That quality has really gone down....its almost like they are branding BCX as ACX. Ive moved to what Menards calls Birch ply, which is a .185 thick, and consistently that. That converts to about 4.7mm so a 5mm straight bit would be a little over a hundredth over size. Check that.
RE: Frame and Panel - Bozz - 11-11-2017
Thanks! But how much play should there between the panel and frame?
RE: Frame and Panel - Stwood_ - 11-11-2017
I like the ply or panel to slip in easily, but no noticeable slop.
RE: Frame and Panel - barryvabeach - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 12:17 AM)Stwood_ Wrote: I like the ply or panel to slip in easily, but no noticeable slop.
Bozz, I don't know if there is a set measurement, normally I shoot for no rattling when opening or closing the panel. If you finish the panel before you assemble the door, you need to account for that thickness as well. I have never used them, but space balls may help keep the panel in place, even if the groove is wider than ideal. https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/spaceballspanelalignerspackof100.aspx
RE: Frame and Panel - Bill Holt - 11-11-2017
To answer the question: snug / no slop.
A few years ago I set up the saw and tested the fit before moving to "production". Some how there was slop and I was forced to use the space balls. They are great! Especially when the panels are hardwood.
RE: Frame and Panel - Admiral - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 12:00 AM)Bozz Wrote: Thanks! But how much play should there between the panel and frame?
I don't use plywood, but hardwood panels, but if you are talking about slop between the front and back of the panel into the dado width, then snug. Now, as far as the edges of the panel to bottom of the dado all around, you have to account for wood movement, and I think that's where those spaceballs become very useful in production work where there are more variables. I hand trim each individual panel to fit the frames.
RE: Frame and Panel - Stwood_ - 11-11-2017
Spaceballs are great. I use those for all Hardwood panels
RE: Frame and Panel - Steve N - 11-11-2017
(11-11-2017, 09:12 AM)Bill Holt Wrote: To answer the question: snug / no slop.
A few years ago I set up the saw and tested the fit before moving to "production". Some how there was slop and I was forced to use the space balls. They are great! Especially when the panels are hardwood.
Spaceballs, they seem to answer a lot of questions. Never do you need to agonize over width of panel, as long as it isn't obviously short, or too wide it is perfect with a spaceball. Even thinner panels as have been mentioned here don't move or rattle around when wedged in there with spaceballs. Assemble the doors face down so the inset panel is always flush to the front of the frame, and you have done all the adjusting you will find necessary.
Don't come any cheaper, or with as high a rating
RE: Frame and Panel - rwe2156 - 11-13-2017
For plywood fit them fairly tight. I usually cut the panels 1/16-3/32" less than openings.
You don't need space balls with plywood as it doesn't move.
A little glue in bottoms of grooves with strengthen the door and prevent most rattling.
If the panels are rattling because the groove is too wide, run some clear silicone caulk on the inside after assembly.