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+-- Thread: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! (/showthread.php?tid=7335418)
Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - Wild Turkey - 12-09-2017
I told the guy at Planning and Zoning that our house plans were not finalized, that I only included them with the plans for my shop because they wanted them as proof we were planning to build a house, not just a shop.
Got the house plans back today with a note that they didn't meet requirements and that we had to revise them and submit them in "architectural scale".
But he said nothing about the shop plans which was the whole point of the exercise.
I just love working with people whose goal in life is insuring their job is secure by making other folks jump through hoops.
Not much of a rant 'cause I'm too bummed out.
EDIT for Monday morning:
Went in to the office and was told the guy who wrote the letter was in Florida for the week. Lady at the counter (an administrative assistant) remembered my last visit and was sympathetic with my situation. I explained it once more and she thought about it and decided we only needed a permit for the barn and she could give us that.
So I can start my barn while LOML finishes the house plans. :bigsighofrelief:
It pays to be nice to the help -- they have to put up with their bosses full time, not just occasionally!
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues - Stwood_ - 12-09-2017
(12-09-2017, 06:18 PM)Wild Turkey Wrote: I just love working with people whose goal in life is insuring their job is secure by screwing up other folks plans and daily lives.
I hear ya.
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues - fredhargis - 12-10-2017
Sounds like parts of Ohio, where the government believes the people exist to serve it instead of the other way around. Stay tough, someday it will be over.
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues - Cecil - 12-10-2017
I had a smoker grill and a small pile of wood in my yard. I also had a 4x8 utility trailer in the yard. I also had two un-split firewood chunks on end, which I used for seats. Note that this was near the rear of the side yard, not the font yard. The zoning board sent me a letter and told me to clean up the junk in my yard. I called them. I told them that if they insisted that what I had in my yard was junk (the trailer was only in the yard temporarily) that I would file a FOIL request, asking for a list of every single property owned by the city. I would then visit each one by marshaling a small force of fellow antagonists via social media. I would then file a complaint on every violation, including grass that was not properly trimmed, candy wrappers that had blown into the yard, peeling paint on tax foreclosures, graffiti etc.. I told him there were enough laws on the books that I would find at least one violation on every property. I then reminded him that, by law, the department must investigate every violation and that I would keep him so busy that he would never have time to get back to my property. Perhaps I even told him that I would send the list of violations to the media.
They became very reasonable to work with. I finished with my garden work and moved the trailer. Everything else remained. I never got another letter.
I suggest that you don't antagonize them, because they have something you need. However, at this point, I see no reason to be polite.
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues - Admiral - 12-10-2017
(12-09-2017, 06:18 PM)Wild Turkey Wrote: I told the guy at Planning and Zoning that our house plans were not finalized, that I only included them with the plans for my shop because they wanted them as proof we were planning to build a house, not just a shop.
Got the house plans back today with a note that they didn't meet requirements and that we had to revise them and submit them in "architectural scale".
But he said nothing about the shop plans which was the whole point of the exercise.
I just love working with people whose goal in life is insuring their job is secure by making other folks jump through hoops.
Not much of a rant 'cause I'm too bummed out.
With any of this type of stuff, you have to read up on the "rules" yourself, then go down there and know what they can and cannot make you do. Unfortunately, most public servants don't really have an in-depth knowledge of what they are enforcing. The first time you politely point out something they missed or got wrong, you get some respect. Most municipalities' zoning and building ordinances are online nowadays.
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues - Cecil - 12-10-2017
(12-10-2017, 04:13 PM)Admiral Wrote: With any of this type of stuff, you have to read up on the "rules" yourself, then go down there and know what they can and cannot make you do. Unfortunately, most public servants don't really have an in-depth knowledge of what they are enforcing. The first time you politely point out something they missed or got wrong, you get some respect. Most municipalities' zoning and building ordinances are online nowadays.
Also, you will find rules which contradict rules. You may also find state laws which the local rules violate, but no one has called them out on it.
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues - goaliedad - 12-10-2017
My mother referred to local govco people as “little Hitlers”
They had a little power and would use every bit of it
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues - KC - 12-10-2017
(12-10-2017, 04:13 PM)Admiral Wrote: With any of this type of stuff, you have to read up on the "rules" yourself, then go down there and know what they can and cannot make you do. Unfortunately, most public servants don't really have an in-depth knowledge of what they are enforcing. The first time you politely point out something they missed or got wrong, you get some respect. Most municipalities' zoning and building ordinances are online nowadays.
Well... he IS in Kentucky.
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues - crokett™ - 12-10-2017
I have had similar situations arise with my county. Based on that experience, you have two choices
1. push to get approval with the plans left as-is, then be prepared to explain/defend the exception to each new person you talk to in the future.
2. give them what they want now. it will take more time and $$$ up front but will save time in the long run later.
Your municipality may be different than mine.
RE: Battle of the bureaucrats continues UPDATE!!! - K. L. McReynolds - 12-11-2017
Local codes are a hoot when they do not make you crazy. The Kansas City Metro has over 35 individual cities, all with different building codes. Many of those cities are separated by a street, so code on one side is different than code on the other. Add in HOA rules and you have the almost perfect storm.
I did a job for a client that involved remodeling a guest bath. New vanity/sink/faucet, new flooring, paint, and replace the window. Turns out the code for that city said each individual job was allowable without permit, but include any two as one job, a permit was required. And, the house next door was undergoing a fairly major roof/addition change, so the codes inspector visited several timers a week.
I introduced myself on the first day, since it was obvious I was doing work. Explained the situation, he agreed, and I said he could check my work at any point to verify my compliance. I think he did look in the window at least once, but we spoke often and had nice conversations. I had to remove the old vanity to do the flooring and he never mentioned the fact I never reinstalled the old vanity.
In the town where I lived in a mobile home(in a privately owned park), the park required each lot have a storage shed. I put in a 10' by 12' metal shed, which quickly became too full. I got permission from the park to add another shed and paid the city the $5 permit fee for the second shed(first needed no permit). When that also filled up---and I decided to get into wood working, so needed shop space along with storage space---I decided to build(if possible) a larger shed to replace both smaller sheds.
I told my plan to the park management---who agreed. The city said no permit was needed to replace a shed---so------
The new shed was 12' by 24' with a metal 12/12 pitch roof. Built it in three days set on 8" square PT beams anchored to the ground by 6 10" long eye pins made from 1/2" rebar lag bolted inside of the 8by8 foundation. 2"by6" PT floor joists with 3/4" PT ply for the flooring. T1-11 siding, home made double doors.
Took park management three weeks to realize what I had done---and since they had never inquired what size I was gonna use---they asked if it was permanent. When I explained how it was anchored, they said that was similar to how trailers were set---so OK.
Use the system and figure out how to use other means to help the system be willing to work with you.
