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+-- Thread: ROS upgrade and Vac Suction (/showthread.php?tid=7337294)
ROS upgrade and Vac Suction - arnman - 02-11-2018
For about 15 years, I have been using my Porter Cable 333 5" sander, attached to my Ridgid WD1450 vac. It seems to have been doing a great job, but it is all I have ever used, and I am wondering if it should be better.
Way back when, I bought the 1", 10'-0 long PC hose to use with this sander. That is a big reduction from the standard 2 1/2 inch vac hose.
I have always wondered if the restricted hose size was choking the vac and making it run hotter than it should. Aside from making it run hot, there is quite an accumulation of black soot on the outside of the vac and nearby walls near the exhaust port. I have been told this is carbon from the motor brushes, and I should not be concerned with this, as it is normal. I have also been told this type of carbon dust is not a health hazard. I am using the drywall dust bag inside the vac, and also the #5 filter inside the vac - I know the soot is not material being blown through the filters. (I don't know if the smaller hose size has anything to do with the black soot.)
Even though the sander still works fine, I am looking at an upgrade. It is narrowed down to the:
1) Bosch ROS65VC-6
2) Metabo SXE 450
3) Festool ETS 125
It seems that these should all be pretty good at sanding, and are similar in price, so dust collection would probably be the deciding factor. Any comments on that would be appreciated. I would also like to know that the connection between sander and hose is solid, and not a weak flexible connection.
But I am also wondering about the vac suction. In reviewing the Festool sander, it seems that the vac suction should be dialed down for better performance. Why on earth would I want to reduce the suction at the sander? I know the Festool vacs can be turned down, but I am wondering:
1) what is the benefit of turning down the suction?
2) how do others reduce the suction if your vac is not variable speed? Maybe cut a hole in a section of the hose?
If I am missing something obvious I would really like to know. Thanks.
RE: ROS upgrade and Vac Suction - Phil Thien - 02-11-2018
The black stuff all over the place might be due to the accessory bag that came with the 1450, mine was shedding some sort of dye or something and making a mess. I removed my accessory bag and the black all over everything went away.
The small hose is fine, I use the same sander and the same hose, it works great.
RE: ROS upgrade and Vac Suction - Stwood_ - 02-11-2018
(02-11-2018, 05:58 PM)arnman Wrote: But I am also wondering about the vac suction. In reviewing the Festool sander, it seems that the vac suction should be dialed down for better performance. Why on earth would I want to reduce the suction at the sander? I know the Festool vacs can be turned down, but I am wondering:
1) what is the benefit of turning down the suction?
2) how do others reduce the suction if your vac is not variable speed? Maybe cut a hole in a section of the hose?
If I am missing something obvious I would really like to know. Thanks.
Too much vac suction and your sander will stick to the work piece. Moving the sander normally is difficult at best when it's trying to stick down due to the vac trying to suck the whole sander into the vac.
RE: ROS upgrade and Vac Suction - Strokes77 - 02-11-2018
(02-11-2018, 08:26 PM)Stwood_ Wrote: Too much vac suction and your sander will stick to the work piece. Moving the sander normally is difficult at best when it's trying to stick down due to the vac trying to suck the whole sander into the vac.
Get the Festool sander, and the festool vac.
Cry once, and be happy for a decade. The noise level alone is worth it over the ridgid... not to mention the instant stop, actual dust collection, longevity of paper, lack of vibration, and auto back stact.
A few years ago I would have said there's no chance in Heck I'll ever spend the money on a festool... Now I have a shop full of it.
RE: ROS upgrade and Vac Suction - giradman - 02-11-2018
(02-11-2018, 09:21 PM)Strokes77 Wrote: Get the Festool sander, and the festool vac.
Cry once, and be happy for a decade. The noise level alone is worth it over the ridgid... not to mention the instant stop, actual dust collection, longevity of paper, lack of vibration, and auto back stact.
A few years ago I would have said there's no chance in Heck I'll ever spend the money on a festool... Now I have a shop full of it.
@ Arnman - well, since you put a Festool sander on your list, I assume you have the budget - over decades I've gone through ROS sanders starting w/ Sears -> Porter-Cable -> Bosch, and finally bought into the two sanders shown below from Festool which have been in use for many years - I also have the Festool jigsaw & a small cordless drill - love them all! As to a vacuum, a Fein has served me well. Dave
RE: ROS upgrade and Vac Suction - arnman - 02-11-2018
That is an interesting comment about the black print on the bag. I will open up the vac and take a look, but I will be surprised if that is the culprit. It sure would be nice if it is that simple. But emptying the vac is so easy with the bag.
I sure don't have the problem of the sander sticking to the work surface due to the vac suction. That really makes me wonder if the suction is restricted through the hose, and subsequently the sander. I think the other sanders allow the use of a 1 1/2" hose - which might allow more airflow and allow the vac to cool more easily.
RE: ROS upgrade and Vac Suction - arnman - 02-11-2018
(02-11-2018, 10:09 PM)giradman Wrote: @ Arnman - well, since you put a Festool sander on your list, I assume you have the budget - over decades I've gone through ROS sanders starting w/ Sears -> Porter-Cable -> Bosch, and finally bought into the two sanders shown below from Festool which have been in use for many years - I also have the Festool jigsaw & a small cordless drill - love them all! As to a vacuum, a Fein has served me well. Dave
I am trying not to get carried away here. The sanders I listed were already at the high end of what I wanted to spend for a sander. I hate sanding - but maybe that is really a good reason to get something that removes the parts I hate - like the seemingly endless drudgery and monotony and trying to vacuum the dust off the pieces.
The festool 150 is quite a step up from the 125.
The Festool vac prices are crazy. I am okay with wearing hearing protection with the Ridgid. I could buy about 7 WD1450's for the price of one Festool with similar suction. I am sure the Festool vacs are great, but it seems like a lot of the cost is in engineering for a system of tools that are used together, plus nicer ergonomics.
RE: ROS upgrade and Vac Suction - Stwood_ - 02-12-2018
I have the 150/3 and have used the FeinII vac with it for abut 10 years now.
I've never used a festool vac, but bet the Fein is just as good.
I bought the Mr Nozzle hose kit and it's nice and flexible.
https://www.ebay.com/i/202061142510?chn=ps
RE: ROS upgrade and Vac Suction - fredhargis - 02-12-2018
(02-11-2018, 08:26 PM)Stwood_ Wrote: Too much vac suction and your sander will stick to the work piece. Moving the sander normally is difficult at best when it's trying to stick down due to the vac trying to suck the whole sander into the vac.
Another problem with too much suction is that the H&L pads will go quickly. The heat will damage the hooks on the pad. When I was using a non variable speed vac I vented the hose to relieve some of the suction. Since then i bought a Fein TII (mine is an older model that had VS) and throttle it down to the lowest setting when it's hooked to my Bosch sander (3725).
RE: ROS upgrade and Vac Suction - EvilTwin - 02-12-2018
All three you mentioned are nice sanders. I have a Festool sander as well as a couple of Bosch sanders and they all do well at DC. I have an older Metabo jigsaw and have high regards for that brand as well. First two are 6", the Festool is a 5", if that makes a difference. All three will work well for DC using any brand vac as long as you can regulate down the suction a bit. I use a Nilfisk vac and it has a little port that you can open up to bleed off some suction.
One other thing to keep in mind is that with the Festool sanders, you are pretty much locked in to using paper designed for them. If you notice the paper has a hole in the center, that is to allow the tool to push air out the middle and to be sucked up on the edges. The Bosch and Metabo use standard 6" paper and I can tell you from using that type of paper with a vac attached that I never saw any residual dust leftover. You may need to buy an adapter to use your vac with the Bosch or Metabo, but they are not too expensive and are a one time buy. HTH