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+-- Thread: Increasing the longevity of micro mesh (/showthread.php?tid=7339337)
Increasing the longevity of micro mesh - KingwoodFan1989 - 05-03-2018
Alright, so I bought some new micro mesh discs for my ROS (Bosch's $219 5" model) since the old ones were wearing out, and when I first got them, even the roughest one (1500) created an even, clear, scratch-free surface. However, I forgot to clean the discs off until the next day, and since then, I haven't gotten the consistency of finish I wanted. I've tried scrubbing them off with dish soap and even got some 600 grit discs to hopefully take away the scratches, but nothing's working. I'm now letting the discs soak in hot, soapy water for a while, so will that help? I just wish there was a way to keep micro mesh discs exactly like new. I sand all the way to 6000 grit and beyond and the finish still has sort of a "haze" of scratches on the surface.
Any tips?
RE: Increasing the longevity of micro mesh - Arlin Eastman - 05-04-2018
(05-03-2018, 08:53 PM)KingwoodFan1989 Wrote: Alright, so I bought some new micro mesh discs for my ROS (Bosch's $219 5" model) since the old ones were wearing out, and when I first got them, even the roughest one (1500) created an even, clear, scratch-free surface. However, I forgot to clean the discs off until the next day, and since then, I haven't gotten the consistency of finish I wanted. I've tried scrubbing them off with dish soap and even got some 600 grit discs to hopefully take away the scratches, but nothing's working. I'm now letting the discs soak in hot, soapy water for a while, so will that help? I just wish there was a way to keep micro mesh discs exactly like new. I sand all the way to 6000 grit and beyond and the finish still has sort of a "haze" of scratches on the surface.
Any tips?
This is what we turners do.
Go up thru the grits and not skip or the next grit will not take out the marks of the other.
I would say start again maybe at 320 and go up again and that should take care of it.
RE: Increasing the longevity of micro mesh - jlanciani - 05-04-2018
Expensive or not, abrasives are consumables. You use them until they don’t produce the desired results and then you throw them away and replace them.
RE: Increasing the longevity of micro mesh - KingwoodFan1989 - 05-04-2018
I was able to get PRETTY close to the results I want after washing the discs more thoroughly. I had to use some polish afterwards to get rid of some irregularities in the sheen, and I did start to barely sand through one spot on the panel, but it's barely there. I'm honestly sick of finishing, so I'm calling it good enough. If I end up selling the tables I'm refinishing, I'll just discount the one with the small sand-through. Something else I've noticed is that most of the time I have to sand up through the grits and then go back down to 1500 and repeat the process one or two more times to fully clear up the sheen. Not sure why, but that's always been my experience with micro-mesh.
RE: Increasing the longevity of micro mesh - AHill - 05-05-2018
I think part of the source of your scratches is that you're using a ROS. When I use micromesh on my turning projects, I always finish each grit by stopping and manually sanding with the grain to remove any cross-grain scratches. Soaking the discs in warm (not hot) soapy water will help clean them. Do not soak them all at the same time. Start with the finest grit, then after you have rinsed that one, proceed to the coarsest grit. That way you prevent any cross-contamination of coarse particles attaching to finer grit pads.
Now, all that said, if you are planning on applying a finish after you sand, there's really no need to proceed beyond 220 grit. Your finish won't absorb as well, and 95% of folks touching or looking at the piece can't tell the difference. I only use micromesh for my turning projects, and even then it's only for things I don't plan on applying a finish to, or for acrylic / plastics pens.
RE: Increasing the longevity of micro mesh - KingwoodFan1989 - 05-05-2018
(05-05-2018, 08:29 AM)AHill Wrote: I think part of the source of your scratches is that you're using a ROS. When I use micromesh on my turning projects, I always finish each grit by stopping and manually sanding with the grain to remove any cross-grain scratches. Soaking the discs in warm (not hot) soapy water will help clean them. Do not soak them all at the same time. Start with the finest grit, then after you have rinsed that one, proceed to the coarsest grit. That way you prevent any cross-contamination of coarse particles attaching to finer grit pads.
Now, all that said, if you are planning on applying a finish after you sand, there's really no need to proceed beyond 220 grit. Your finish won't absorb as well, and 95% of folks touching or looking at the piece can't tell the difference. I only use micromesh for my turning projects, and even then it's only for things I don't plan on applying a finish to, or for acrylic / plastics pens.
Whoops...been soaking them all at the same time. Gotta remember not to do that next time. Also, I never sand to 220 grit, apply finish, and then just leave it. I'm nowhere near good enough at applying finishes to get something that looks good right off the brush/rag. I pretty much apply, fairly sloppily, 10-12 thick coats and then after they're dried, I flatten the finish with sanding and then polish it back up.
I have NO idea how anybody can get good results just by sanding, brushing, and then leaving the finish as is without doing any post production sanding on it. I remember the episode of the New Yankee Workshop with the big Mahogany dining table...he's simply wiping on the poly, and although there could have been some work in between scenes (in addition to him filling the grain beforehand and sealing with shellac), I didn't see any indication of post production sanding. The finish looked absolutely perfect, and I'd love to meet Norm at some point to ask how he was able to achieve such a perfect finish so easily. Finishing is by far my weakest attribute in woodworking, and it sets my projects back literally by months because I have such a hard time with it.
RE: Increasing the longevity of micro mesh - Derek Cohen - 05-06-2018
(05-05-2018, 06:59 PM)KingwoodFan1989 Wrote: I have NO idea how anybody can get good results just by sanding, brushing, and then leaving the finish as is without doing any post production sanding on it. I remember the episode of the New Yankee Workshop with the big Mahogany dining table...he's simply wiping on the poly, and although there could have been some work in between scenes (in addition to him filling the grain beforehand and sealing with shellac), I didn't see any indication of post production sanding. The finish looked absolutely perfect, and I'd love to meet Norm at some point to ask how he was able to achieve such a perfect finish so easily. Finishing is by far my weakest attribute in woodworking, and it sets my projects back literally by months because I have such a hard time with it.
Go to this article of mine on my website about finishing a kitchen full of maple cabinet doors ...
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Kitchen%20Rebuild.html
.. and scan down to .. Hand finishing water-based poly
The finish is amazing.
![[Image: KitchenComplete_html_54e32e69.jpg]](http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/KitchenComplete_html_54e32e69.jpg)
The prep was either hand planed or sanded to 400 grit. The rest was hand applied finish, rubbing back with grey mesh ... and that was it. The secret is in the rubbing on of the finish. I would never pour it on as you did.
Regards from Perth
Derek
RE: Increasing the longevity of micro mesh - KingwoodFan1989 - 05-06-2018
(05-06-2018, 01:16 AM)Derek Cohen Wrote: Go to this article of mine on my website about finishing a kitchen full of maple cabinet doors ...
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Kitchen%20Rebuild.html
.. and scan down to .. Hand finishing water-based poly
The finish is amazing.
The prep was either hand planed or sanded to 400 grit. The rest was hand applied finish, rubbing back with grey mesh ... and that was it. The secret is in the rubbing on of the finish. I would never pour it on as you did.
Regards from Perth
Derek
That is fantastic looking! I'm more of a gloss kinda guy, but that's a perfect example to me of a satin finish in that picture!
BTW, I don't pour on my finish, I just load a paper towel with a decent amount of finish and then wipe the coats on in the direction of the grain. This results in a thick but very uneven finish...once this hardens fully, I just sand across the grain until it's flat, and then rub it back up to a gloss. Just for a more direct reference, here's the episode of the NYW I was talking about above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wSyqUgGaZw
Go to 23 minutes in and you'll see the results. It's not SUPER high gloss, but it's definitely gloss and it's VERY even...if you look closely you might be able to see little imperfections, but for all practical purposes it's perfect right off the rag like magic or something!
RE: Increasing the longevity of micro mesh - AHill - 05-07-2018
(05-05-2018, 06:59 PM)KingwoodFan1989 Wrote: I have NO idea how anybody can get good results just by sanding, brushing, and then leaving the finish as is without doing any post production sanding on it.
I misunderstood what you were doing while sanding. I was under the impression you were using the micromesh BEFORE you applied the finish and not after. It doesn't change my recommendation, but I think you implied I don't sand the surface between coats after applying finish. I do. I don't, however, "sand" the top coat. I buff it out.
Nevertheless, the method Derek mentioned is the method I use. You just continually build up the finish, very lightly sanding between coats. You will eventually get a glossy finish without scratches by doing this. (Remember, glossy finishes were being created long before micromesh was invented.) The key is to wipe and and wipe off the finish - don't overdo it. Your description of a "very uneven coating" is a symptom of overloading your application cloth, getting too aggressive with sanding, or not waiting long enough to sand. And wait before sanding until the finish has cured sufficiently. Finishing takes patience. Seriously, finishing can take several days if not a couple of weeks to get good results.
I recommend investing in one or both of the best books out there on finishing. The Flexner book is the best, IMO.
Jeff Jewitt: Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Finishing
Bob Flexner: Understanding Wood Finishing