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Water Stones - Keep in Water or Not? - giradman - 05-10-2018
Hi All - 2-3 years ago, I purchased new chisels and replaced/added a lot of Veritas planes - of course, that meant some sharpening and honing - decided to go w/ Norton water stones (2 w/ 4 grits) - also purchased the Lee Valley items shown below, along w/ Leonard Lee's book and video. Spent several months (intermittently - who likes to sharpen for hours?) on the new items - finished nearly two years ago and left my stones in the water pond - cleaned the other day, some scum - stones seemed intact so do not suspect any harm was done.
Now, I do not use my chisels and planes that often (should change my habits w/ the amount of $ put in those planes, in particular), so sharpening may be only a yearly or bi-annual need for me. SO, my question is can water stones be left in water for several years (as I've already done!) or should they be stored in another fashion - if I decide to leave them in water will add a small amount of bleach to hopefully prevent the mold/scum.
I also own the Delta sharpening station below (have not used since buying the Norton stones and Lee Vly items) and bought the 3M micro-abrassive system, but have not used yet. Would appreciate any comments, recommendations, etc. Dave
RE: Water Stones - Keep in Water or Not? - Willyou - 05-10-2018
My understanding is the water stones are stored dry and then soaked for 20-30 minutes before use. If they stay wet, I assume you have the chance of mold, mildew, etc. Not sure if that is a problem for the stones, but it could get messy. I assume you should keep from freezing.
RE: Water Stones - Keep in Water or Not? - giradman - 05-10-2018
(05-10-2018, 10:25 AM)Willyou Wrote: My understanding is the water stones are stored dry and then soaked for 20-30 minutes before use. If they stay wet, I assume you have the chance of mold, mildew, etc. Not sure if that is a problem for the stones, but it could get messy. I assume you should keep from freezing.
Thanks for the response - before posting, I googled the issue and there were multiple hits - this ONE is typical, i.e. advice conflicting about storage, but a number of posters keep there Norton stones wet (8000 grit an exception) for years w/o a problem; again mine had been in water for 2+ years and seem fine (have not tested w/ a blade, though) - will have go to the Norton website and see if there is a recommendation? Dave
RE: Water Stones - Keep in Water or Not? - Hank Knight - 05-10-2018
I keep my Norton water stones in water tight Pelican 1060 micro cases. The cases are just the right size for an individual stone. I used to add a drop of Clorox in each case to keep the mold, etc., at bay, but I quit doing that along time ago and I still have no problem with mold, algae, etc. Storing them in individual cases practically eliminates cross contamination of grits. The cases are right pricy, but they have done the job for me for 8 to 10 years.
https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=pelican+case+1060+micro+case&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=214534990940&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18231820423014222131&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010437&hvtargid=kwd-301591600289&ref=pd_sl_7os59obrek_b
RE: Water Stones - Keep in Water or Not? - Stwood_ - 05-10-2018
My stone stays dry until time to go fishing.
No idea whether stones submerged with the catfish affect them or not.
RE: Water Stones - Keep in Water or Not? - OneStaple - 05-10-2018
giradman Wrote:SO, my question is can water stones be left in water for several years (as I've already done!) or should they be stored in another fashion - if I decide to leave them in water will add a small amount of bleach to hopefully prevent the mold/scum.
Yes, no, maybe so. The answer really depends on the stone, so I'm not going to answer just specifically for your stones, as the answer will be different from someone else with different stones. And right up front, I want to make it clear that I'm not an expert on this. I'm taking a lot of my info from Jon Broida, who I consider to be an expert on sharpening stones from Japan.
Whether or not you can permanently soak or not depends a lot on the binding agent holding the abrasive particles together. It's not always easy to tell what type you have, but often some google searches will let you know. There are a few main types of binding agents, including resinoid, ceramic, clay, and magnesia.
Magnesia - Soaking will allow the magnesia binding agent to leach out into the water, weakening the stone and affecting structural stability. This can lead to cracks or, in extreme cases, the stone crumbling apart. I've often seen people say not to soak for more than 5-10 minutes before sharpening and then to dry thoroughly afterwards.
Clay/ceramic/vitrified - Soak to your heart's content. The water doesn't really affect the binding agent. Any cracking problems are likely to be from physical damage (such as dropping).
Resinoid - Soaking helps soften the stone, which is not a bad thing. Softening the stone allows more abrasive material to be released more quickly, increasing speed, quantity of mud, feedback, etc. However, they're far less porous, so they take longer to soak and to dry. That means the outside layers of the stone can dry (and shrink) faster than the inside, causing the outside layers to contract and crack. Good handling options for a resinoid stone are to soak permanently, use as a splash and go, or to soak and dry (dry carefully/slowly).
A note on drying stones. Stones can take a surprising amount of time to thoroughly dry (up to a week?). It depends on the stone and the conditions, of course, such as humidity, temperature, and whether it was previously soaked or used as a splash-and-go. Especially for more sensitive stones, I've heard people suggest wrapping a paper towel around the stone while drying to allow it to dry slowly/evenly. Usually people stand them on their sides in a cool, dry place so air can get to all sides. If you're unsure about a stone being dry, I've heard of people putting a piece of paper on top of the stone for a few hours to see if any moisture is absorbed by the paper.
For what it's worth, I think the Norton stones use a clay binder. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Hopefully that's helpful. Again, I'm far from being an expert, but just wanted to make you aware that there's more than one "right" answer.
Tyler
RE: Water Stones - Keep in Water or Not? - giradman - 05-10-2018
Thanks all for your additional comments - below is an email response that I just received from Norton's website - only precaution is on the 8000 grit portion of my combo stone - would just elevate that grit above the water; if I decide to leave the stones in liquid, then will add a little bleach - for the meantime may just keep them 'on land' until I plan to do some sharpening - the stones do have their own containers but certainly not waterproof - not sure how important that may be? Dave
Quote:Dave,
Plenty of people leave their Waterstones soaking for months at a time – issues that sometimes occur are development of mold or a slight rusting appearance. Add in a little bit of bleach to the water will keep mold away and a quick pass with our flatting stone will eliminate the rust. The 8000 grit stone is likely to become a little softer after continuous exposure to water, but you may not even notice that depending on how you often and aggressively you sharpen.
Take care not to let the water freeze, that could lead to crack development but otherwise you should be fine.
Happy sharpening!
Trish
RE: Water Stones - Keep in Water or Not? - jteneyck - 05-10-2018
I keep my ceramic bonded Waterstones in water with a drop or two of Clorox to keep stuff from growing. I used to dry them out but then got tired of waiting 20 or 30 minutes to use them. That was at least 3 years ago; no problems. As Tyler said, if the stones are fired to bond them they will last for decades in water w/o damage. That's as long as they don't freeze; that might not be good.
FWIW, clay/ceramic/vitreous bonded are just different ways of saying fired to create an inorganic bond. Gotta put that ceramics degree to use now and then.
John
RE: Water Stones - Keep in Water or Not? - retfr8flyr - 05-10-2018
I am another one that keeps his Sigma Power stones in water all the time. I have small plastic cases that I keep my stones in and I haven't had any problems with them. I just take them out when needed and stick them back in the case when I am through. I love my Sigma Power stones and highly recommend them for anyone looking to get into Japanese water stones.
RE: Water Stones - Keep in Water or Not? - EricU - 05-10-2018
I have had King waterstones that I have kept submerged for the last 25 years. I put some dishwashing detergent in the water. Learned that somewhere, it seems to keep the nasty stuff at bay.
I have heard of stones that aren't supposed to be submerged, but I think traditional stones were submerged.