+- Woodnet Forums (https://forums.woodnet.net)
+-- Thread: Pleading supidity (/showthread.php?tid=7341431)
Pages:
1
2
Pleading supidity - castguy2003 - 08-03-2018
What is the difference between Bailey and Bedrock design?
RE: Pleading supidity - UpstateNYdude - 08-03-2018
Read what Patrick wrote, he can describe it better than most and more truthfully than most. It's an overhyped model of the same plane with slightly better modifications to improve performance marginally.
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan15.htm
RE: Pleading supidity - hbmcc - 08-03-2018
I thought one was a flat top and the other a roller coaster design. That's describing the base. But, I never see any, or care, to make any difference to me. Just as long as they work without fuss.
RE: Pleading supidity - DaveParkis - 08-03-2018
The primary difference (IMHO) is the way the frog mates to the body. On the flat side Bedrocks, you can adjust the frog forward/backward without removing the iron, chip breaker or lever cap.
RE: Pleading supidity - Admiral - 08-03-2018
Bottom line, in vintage tools, a well tuned Bailey will perform as well as a well tuned Bedrock, so I agree with Patrick that most of the design is hype. That being said, a LN bedrock design will outperform both vintage tools, principally due to much tighter manufacturing tolerances, better steel in the iron, thicker iron and less adjustment slop. IMHO the performance advantage of LN to vintage is 10% or less, depending on how well the vintage tool was tuned and fettled, and some of that 10% can be recouped with a replacement iron in the vintage plane. In a way, it's just like sports cars; you pay a hefty premium for that single digit percentage improvement in performance.
RE: Pleading supidity - Mike Brady - 08-03-2018
(08-03-2018, 01:22 PM)Admiral Wrote: Bottom line, in vintage tools, a well tuned Bailey will perform as well as a well tuned Bedrock, so I agree with Patrick that most of the design is hype. That being said, a LN bedrock design will outperform both vintage tools, principally due to much tighter manufacturing tolerances, better steel in the iron, thicker iron and less adjustment slop. IMHO the performance advantage of LN to vintage is 10% or less, depending on how well the vintage tool was tuned and fettled, and some of that 10% can be recouped with a replacement iron in the vintage plane. In a way, it's just like sports cars; you pay a hefty premium for that single digit percentage improvement in performance.
I agree with Admiral's evaluation of the Bedrock design and would add one more important consideration:
A well tuned Bedrock and a better iron can deliver very good performance if tuning a plane is truly part of your skill set. You will still have to live with the adjuster slop. On the other hand a Lie-Nielsen plane gives you all of the good attributes and all you need is the ability to sharpen the iron and use the tool; skills that will come with practice. The difference in price is significant of course.
Bedrock Stanleys are not necessarily going to perform better than the Bailey design Stanleys.
RE: Pleading supidity - Greg Jones - 08-04-2018
(08-03-2018, 10:03 AM)hbmcc Wrote: I thought one was a flat top and the other a roller coaster design. That's describing the base. But, I never see any, or care, to make any difference to me. Just as long as they work without fuss.
The early Bedrocks (Types 1-4) had the round top sides as well.
RE: Pleading supidity - bandit571 - 08-04-2018
(08-03-2018, 02:47 PM)Mike Brady Wrote: I agree with Admiral's evaluation of the Bedrock design and would add one more important consideration:
A well tuned Bedrock and a better iron can deliver very good performance if tuning a plane is truly part of your skill set. You will still have to live with the adjuster slop. On the other hand a Lie-Nielsen plane gives you all of the good attributes and all you need is the ability to sharpen the iron and use the tool; skills that will come with practice. The difference in price is significant of course.
Bedrock Stanleys are not necessarily going to perform better than the Bailey design Stanleys.
Yet it is the Bedrock design that the high priced makers tend to copy? Flat topped bedrocks used a slightly different frog adjust system than the roundies, too. You might also look into the Vaughn & Bushnell 900 series....as it also used a "Bedrock" frog design.
Sooo, rather than take the added time and expense to mill a BAILEY style frog seat..modern makers simply milled the area as a ramp, like a Bedrock was done. Less to machine, that way, easier to cast that way. Tuning ANY plane is simple enough to do....it does take a tad of elbow grease, though...sometimes THAT is in short supply.
At least went talking about the Stanley planes.....one does not have to sound like a Billy Mayes Info-mercial ( about how they LOVE it) like talking about other brand name planes...
I do not intend to marry that plane...I intend to simply put it to work.
RE: Pleading supidity - John Walkowiak - 08-04-2018
The Bailey plane frogs/beds have less surface area to contact with then the Bedrock planes. As said above the Bedrocks have a fully machined ramp which to rest on the bed of the plane. Also, Bedrocks frogs are captured in this ramp so the frog can't be set up accidently at an angle or knocked out of square by a sudden shock. In one of the catalogs or advertisements for the Bedrock it was said this design could not be knocked out of true by hitting a knot in the wood. Those of us that have planed a pine board with knots in it know how a large one can put a quick stop to a plane stroke. These planes were designed for carpenters, not cabinetmakers. Cabinetmaking with hand tools - in the US- was long dead by the time Stanley started making planes.
Also, at one LN event I attended I test drove a 4 1/2. The adjuster was as worn and sloppy as an old Bailey. But at least you can buy a new one.
RE: Pleading supidity - cputnam - 08-04-2018
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned a significant advantage possessed by both Veritas and L-N planes which is that use ductile cast iron. Means that your plane is more likely to survive a swan dive onto a concrete floor.