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+-- Thread: Woodworking as a hobby -- is it dying out? (/showthread.php?tid=7351544)
RE: Woodworking as a hobby -- is it dying out? - Axehandle - 12-21-2019
I’m at the earliest end of being a millennial. I in no way embrace that title.
At age 37, I have gotten into and out of woodworking a number of times. Lately I have really been into it. Possibly to the point of fully monetizing it as I am fed up with my current employment.
I am a millennial in that I have decided I hate cutting joinery. Hand or power. I just hate it. More than sanding even. So I did the millennial thing. I wanted instant results instead of building skill at joinery and I had some money so I bought a Domino joiner. Problem solved for me and faster but still equal results ensued.
I’ve also gotten into reclaimed, pallet, and self-milled lumber. I like cheap raw materials and you can get some decent wood from pallets if you are selective and diligent.
It’s funny. You build a half arsed coffee table that no one would be interested in if it were made of Brazilian Rosewood but if it is made from pallets all of the sudden they are all interested. They will stand there and point at the nail holes like that is some kind of verification. I could have made it all up. Usually these customers are millennials.
RE: Woodworking as a hobby -- is it dying out? - Robin Dobbie - 12-21-2019
(12-21-2019, 04:25 PM)Axehandle Wrote: So I did the millennial thing. I wanted instant results instead of building skill at joinery and I had some money so I bought a Domino joiner. Problem solved for me and faster but still equal results ensued.
I’ve also gotten into reclaimed, pallet, and self-milled lumber. I like cheap raw materials and you can get some decent wood from pallets if you are selective and diligent.
It’s funny. You build a half arsed coffee table that no one would be interested in if it were made of Brazilian Rosewood but if it is made from pallets all of the sudden they are all interested. They will stand there and point at the nail holes like that is some kind of verification. I could have made it all up. Usually these customers are millennials.
Can I ask what your tolerances are for what you call problem solved? I also did the millennial thing and got the Domino. In my case, the XL. My main issue with it is that joints are often but not always 1/64th of an inch off, with no explanation. I feel that's just too far off for fine woodworking. It isn't a pleasure to sand 1/64th of an inch when you weren't planning on it. The weird thing is that mating mortises are parallel, but one side can sometimes be noticeably lower. I don't understand that. I looked around on the Festool forum and some people have had similar experience.
My secondary issue is that the angle detents are way off. It takes work to set it up for a simple 90 degrees because the little spring ball starts pushing well before 90 degrees. What I have to do is set the Domino on a known flat surface, find a piece of scrap that's tall enough and the top and bottom of which are acceptably parallel to lower the fence onto. While I'm holding both the domino body and fence down, I have to use my third hand to tighten the fence angle adjustment because, like I said, the angle detent for 90 is fighting with me. After all that's done, I still end up with inconsistent joinery, even when I'm fully confident that the machine did not shift mid-bore.
I was really inexperienced when I first got it, so I assumed I was the problem and just sort of gave up woodworking for a few months. I did a few projects with tablesaw-cut joinery and realized the problem wasn't me, it was their machine. I tried contacting their US and international customer service departments, but I never got a response. By the time I figured out that you have to contact them by phone, or deal with the place you bought it from as a proxy, my warranty was expired. I've heard of people contacting them, and of course they themselves don't warn you that they'll never respond to emails.
If it works for you then great, I'm jealous.
RE: Woodworking as a hobby -- is it dying out? - Axehandle - 12-22-2019
Oh I absolutely have the first problem you describe. Sanding or planing away the excess is acceptable to me as it still takes a fraction of the time that cutting “actual” joinery does.
I may be misinterpreting your second query. 90 degree mortises are fine for me. I am not fighting any of the detents on the protractor or anything. 90 degree cuts work perfectly as long as I do my part.
RE: Woodworking as a hobby -- is it dying out? - Robin Dobbie - 12-22-2019
Even sanding pine is time consuming, but hardwood is just forget about it. A dowel jig is hands down faster, no contest. I don't know if people consider that "real joinery." One of the long-time festool forum members even suggested a dowel jig for when you need dead accurate results.
Regarding the detents in the fence, in mine there's play around the detents. Meaning even if they were in the correct position, there'd still be opportunity for error. The fact that 90 degrees isn't even in the play area means that it's easy to ╔@rk up joints with wider pieces. I don't know if you have the XL or the 500, but it can get pretty bad with the 12 or 14mm dominoes at full length. With smaller pieces, you can take advantage of the "correctness" of the rest of the project to pull a joint to the desired angle. The longer the domino, the more an incorrect angle will fight.
I think the patent for the Domino expires in like 2027? Maybe sooner? I just like the concept of a quick joiner for projects where you need strength, but aren't trying to impress anyone. I'm anxious to see what other companies might come up with, and for less money, even. But who knows, maybe by 2027 I'll have learned to manually cut dovetails with my pinkie toes.
RE: Woodworking as a hobby -- is it dying out? - Gary G™ - 12-22-2019
Quote:The last time I was in a doctor's office I was the only one there who did not have a cell phone plastered against a nose. That's true of about any waiting room.
The rare occasions I’m in a Dr’s waiting room, I’m on my iPhone looking at WW forums or something else of interest. I have ZERO desire to interact with the other folks there.
As to the domino joinery and the 1/64th misfit, I’ve never used a domino but I have made my own floating tenons and similar joinery. This is where a sharp chisel comes into use—no sanding needed. If it didn’t fit right to start, a slice or two with the chisel produces a piston fit.
RE: Woodworking as a hobby -- is it dying out? - John Mihich - 12-22-2019
I read some of these, not all.
Anyway. I have a SIL that I am slowly getting him into WWing. His dad left him a TS; kid never used it. So when the kids bought a house they needed thing done. I gave him a MS, cordless drill and a few other things. He ended up making a few things and he liked it - did a good job also. I was over about a month a go and he had made a medicine cabinet out of old wood - really nice job. He is going to make a dinning room table next. We had some discussions and I think he has a plan. He's got the bug.
My #3 daughter has a boyfriend that is into metal working but wants to expand into metal/wood. So I guess I will be giving him some wwing tools for Christmas. He has a bunch of metal working tools and black smithing tools.
RE: Woodworking as a hobby -- is it dying out? - Handplanesandmore - 12-22-2019
(12-21-2019, 05:39 PM)Robin Dobbie Wrote: Can I ask what your tolerances are for what you call problem solved? I also did the millennial thing and got the Domino. In my case, the XL. My main issue with it is that joints are often but not always 1/64th of an inch off, with no explanation.
My secondary issue is that the angle detents are way off. It takes work to set it up for a simple 90 degrees because the little spring ball starts pushing well before 90 degrees.
If it works for you then great, I'm jealous.
Your machine needs calibration (pins or sight gauge or both) assuming it's not a user error. Search youtube or ask at the Festool forum how to do that. The supplementary manual may have that covered as well.
Angle issue - Is it a defect? Check with Festool. It should be fixable.
Machine defects aside, user errors are committed by many many. The XL is also harder to control on smaller pieces from the precision perspective despite claims by some XL users that it is as user friendly as the 500.
Simon
RE: Woodworking as a hobby -- is it dying out? - toolmiser - 12-22-2019
I've never heard about accuracy issues with a Domino. I don't have one, and considered buying one this year but let it slide.
RE: Woodworking as a hobby -- is it dying out? - Axehandle - 12-22-2019
I have the DF500 so it is probably a little more forgiving.
RE: Woodworking as a hobby -- is it dying out? - Bibliophile 13 - 12-22-2019
Is woodworking dying?
No.
Is it changing?
Yes.
If it were dying, companies like Grizzly, Lee Valley, and Lie- Nielsen would be dying along with it. But they’re not.
The difference is in how people learn about the craft and how it works with their social life.
I agree with much that has been said above about generational differences. I sell my work at craft markets, and I talk to about an equal number of retirees and young professional types who are into woodworking. But the way each group approaches the hobby is a little different. The older types tend to be joiners (in the social sense). They form clubs, operate maker-spaces, etc. The younger ones watch videos on YouTube and join Facebook woodworking groups.
Younger types are more likely to buy a few tools and just try to figure things out on their own. Older types like to get together and chat about their work. Younger types often have less free time, or their only free time is at odd hours—late at night, the odd weekday—especially if they work weekends.
I think I now see more custom woodwork at local craft markets than I used to. Heck, I see more craft markets, period. Seems like everyone has a handicraft-sideline in my area nowadays. If anything, I think woodworking is on the rise.