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Washer Dryer question. - brianwelch - 03-10-2021
After a very near-fall, our 89 year old mother is finally considering the possibility of using a laundry room on the 2nd floor rather than the basement.
Her home has a large closet adjacent to one of the upstairs bathrooms (ostensibly used as a laundry room 40 some years ago), with power, H & C water and a drain, however we see no set-up for an exterior exhaust vent. There is no accessible attic above, and the exterior wall is stone, so we are considering a ventless electric dryer, possibly a combo W/D unit, as her laundry needs are pretty minimal at this time.
Suggestions/recommendations?
Edit: Question is 2-fold,
1 - ventless dryer vs vented, and
2 - combo unit vs individual appliances
RE: Washer Dryer question. - Snipe Hunter - 03-11-2021
If you install a ventless system, keep in mind a few things.
That water has to go somewhere and some of it just goes into the indoor air. There is a chamber in the dryer that collects a lot of the water after it passes through a heat exchanger to pull as much water out of the hot air as possible, condense it to liquid and drain. But it doesn't collect all the water so some humid air still escapes into the house. It has to escape (hopefully) somewhere and the only way it can do that is by condensing on the building materials, walls, ceiling, flooring etc. Then those materials have to dry. Not sure how the house is constructed but newer designed homes have permeable walls and finishes. So in the winter when the exterior humidity is low, moisture travels to the exterior and in the summer when the exterior humidity is higher moisture travels to the interior and dry typically at the air conditioners evaporator coils and drain out through the condensate pan and out to the exterior. Moisture collected on an interior wall can only escape into the house, not to the exterior. In a confined closet, a lot of the moisture will condense on the walls of the closet. So, at the very minimum, make sure the closet doors are left open or the doors are louvered. But you'll still get a degree of condensation on the walls of the closet. The manufacturers recommend at least a 1 inch gap around the dryer. This is where I see mold problems, on the walls around the dryer. If possible, provide as much space around the dryer as you can. 1" only allows air flow for proper operation of the dryer but not enough to really allow the wet air to fully escape without some degree of condensation on the walls, floor, ceiling etc. Since you already have a drain in the closet, consider a dehumidifier with a drain hose draining into that drain. Get something with a humidistat that automatically turns the dehumidifier on when the humidity is high.
These ventless systems do work but I'd suggest these precautions.
RE: Washer Dryer question. - TDKPE - 03-11-2021
This may not be helpful, but long ago when we had our first child, DW and I bought a small portable top-load washer and front-load 120V dryer. It was an apartment, so the washer was downstairs and we ran it in the kitchen at the sink, but the dryer was upstairs in the baby's room. I vented it out a window by putting a 3" louvered vent in a board that I pinched under the lower sash. It filled the whole width, so it was essentially weather tight, and due to the location, not visible from the ground. I removed it when the dryer wasn't being used. Oh, and we weren't supposed to have laundry machines in our condo, but that's the way it goes.
Maybe a small, portable dryer would work, with a vent out a window. If it's a spare room, just leave it there. If it's nice weather, leave the vent connected.
Something like this.
Whirlpool 3.4-cu ft Compact Stackable Top Load Dryer with Flexible Installation in the Electric Dryers department at Lowes.com
RE: Washer Dryer question. - crokett™ - 03-11-2021
You could rent a core box bit and a drill and get through that stone to install a dryer vent.
RE: Washer Dryer question. - brianwelch - 03-11-2021
Thanks for the feedback...There is a corridor with a plaster ceiling between the "Laundry" room and nearest exterior wall. Really want to avoid all that plaster cutting/patching if possible. Circa 1860, plaster may be "hot"...
That reminds me...really ought to check to see which way the joists are runing above...maybe we can pull up some floorboards in the bedroom above and re-think the horizontal approach...
Thanks again...
RE: Washer Dryer question. - Cooler - 03-15-2021
I saw an episode of This Old House and they liked the new (not the old type) vent-less driers. In the 1980s I had the old type in an apartment. It only took two washings for the very high heat to destroy all the elastic in my underwear and they would fall to my ankles. On top of that it took forever to dry. Instead I brought my laundry to the local laudramat to wash and dry for me.
Here is the article on the current heat pump style vent-less driers from This Old House:
https://www.thisoldhouse.com/21097178/exploring-a-heat-pump-clothes-dryer
RE: Washer Dryer question. - Cabinet Monkey - 03-15-2021
Brian - if you buy a quality ventless dryer i.e. Miele, Bosch or Asko then your mom won’t have any trouble with humidity, or notice a difference in drying. It will drain into the pipe along with the water
I’m guessing snipe’s issues stem from using cheap domestic brands, but maybe not. We spec a ton of Miele and they don’t make a vented dryer anymore. The people that buy them won’t put up with them turning their homes into a sauna - which means they don’t. I‘ve personally had a Bosch ventless dryer in a pied-a-terre for two decades with its vented cousin in shop at my main residence. There is no performance difference between them , and my little city place is not a mold fest. Bear in mind these are old units, new ones will have benefited from two decades worth of improvements to the design.
As for the separates vs. combo unit .......separates everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Unless you get two combo units you have to wait on the entire load to finish before starting another. With separates , the first load can dry while you start washing the second. Capacity is generally smaller with combo units too.
At 89, I suggest you pitch her a laundry service that picks up once or twice a week that will wash,dry, fold whatever she puts in the bag. May get no traction if she likes doing laundry and gets a sense of independence and accomplishment out of the task.
RE: Washer Dryer question. - Cooler - 03-15-2021
My doctor once asked me if I had to climb stairs to do my laundry. I said "yes". He then suggested that I put my dirty laundry in a laundry bag and toss the bag down the stairs instead of carrying it.
I asked, "what about carrying it up the stairs?" and he replied, "Almost all falls seem to happen going down the stairs".
I don't know if that is statistically accurate, but I do know that tossing the dirty laundry down to the basement is easy and safe. I do it regularly.
I thought about a laundry chute but most of them will not comply with fire regulations in my area. The laundry chute acts acts as a vertical flue and will accelerate a fire.
Not much help for your mom, but not much effort in getting a light duty laundry bag either.
RE: Washer Dryer question. - brianwelch - 03-17-2021
(03-15-2021, 11:02 AM)Cooler Wrote: My doctor once asked me if I had to climb stairs to do my laundry. I said "yes". He then suggested that I put my dirty laundry in a laundry bag and toss the bag down the stairs instead of carrying it.
I asked, "what about carrying it up the stairs?" and he replied, "Almost all falls seem to happen going down the stairs".
I don't know if that is statistically accurate, but I do know that tossing the dirty laundry down to the basement is easy and safe. I do it regularly.
I thought about a laundry chute but most of them will not comply with fire regulations in my area. The laundry chute acts acts as a vertical flue and will accelerate a fire.
Not much help for your mom, but not much effort in getting a light duty laundry bag either.
Thanks all...she figured out how gravity works pretty early in the game, and utilizes it to her advantage...biggest problem is her pride, in wanting to remain independent, and strong (a fierce competitor in many sports).
It's a slow process, but she is sharp enough to realize, as difficult as it is, that she is not getting younger, and sometimes change is inevitable...
Appreciate the suggestions and advice!
RE: Washer Dryer question. - brianwelch - 03-17-2021
(03-15-2021, 09:26 AM)Cabinet Monkey Wrote: At 89, I suggest you pitch her a laundry service that picks up once or twice a week that will wash,dry, fold whatever she puts in the bag. May get no traction if she likes doing laundry and gets a sense of independence and accomplishment out of the task.Interesting concept...I don't think that will happen unless/until she ends up in a assisting living facility...prob not for another 15 or 20 years...