+- Woodnet Forums (https://www.forums.woodnet.net)
+-- Thread: Shaper Origin and Half-Blind Dovetails (/showthread.php?tid=7365419)
Pages:
1
2
Shaper Origin and Half-Blind Dovetails - Rob Young - 10-10-2021
Decided to do a little more experimenting with using the Shaper Origin hand-held CNC for cutting dovetails. Half-blind ones this time. More or less got my head around the CAD necessary for doing the basics so next is to work out how to semi-automate generating ones with variable spacing.
The Shaper Origin takes in SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) files, there is no external CAM software to generate gcode. But is also will automatically retract a bit if you get a little squirrely and stray too far off the line. And in this case you need to make some "safe areas" where the bit can plunge and retract outside the wood. So if I automate the CAD generation I'll also need to add in those areas, resizing them if the bit is larger/smaller.
But meanwhile here are some tests in pine and popular using a small 5/16" dovetail bit. Got the bit from Precisebits.com
[attachment=38128]
[attachment=38129]
[attachment=38130]
RE: Shaper Origin and Half-Blind Dovetails - rwe2156 - 10-11-2021
One comment and one question:
What is the application for this outside industrial manufacturing?
For many ww'er like me, there's no actually ww'ing involved, for a wood machinist, maybe.
RE: Shaper Origin and Half-Blind Dovetails - jteneyck - 10-11-2021
(10-11-2021, 12:37 PM)rwe2156 Wrote: One comment and one question:
What is the application for this outside industrial manufacturing?
For many ww'er like me, there's no actually ww'ing involved, for a wood machinist, maybe.
Much the same argument could be made for any machine. You can do most any wood working task with hand tools, yet most of us have jointers, planers, tablesaws, and all manner of other power equipment that essentially separates human from wood. Why should CNC be viewed any differently?
I don't own a CNC of any kind and likely never will, but I can appreciate how useful they can be for all forms of wood working.
John
RE: Shaper Origin and Half-Blind Dovetails - Rob Young - 10-12-2021
(10-11-2021, 12:37 PM)rwe2156 Wrote: One comment and one question:
What is the application for this outside industrial manufacturing?
For many ww'er like me, there's no actually ww'ing involved, for a wood machinist, maybe.
As John said, bit of a slippery slope on where draws the line, purity test-wise.
As to production work, dovetails with the SO ain't it. However I have found that for patten routing it works very well and you can skip making the pattern, instead working straight from the machine.
It's ability to reference of edges makes installing hinges like Soss, barrel and quadrant a breeze. No jigs. And being able to return to a previous cut and bump things out another 0.001" (or more) makes fitting hardware or some joinery very pleasurable.
But like any machine it will leave its fingerprints on a design such as rounded tennons or the look of machined DT joints. Still no substitute for handwork. Remains horses for courses.
But I'm still enjoying the challenges it presents in its use and application.
RE: Shaper Origin and Half-Blind Dovetails - Tapper - 10-12-2021
(10-11-2021, 02:40 PM)jteneyck Wrote: Much the same argument could be made for any machine. You can do most any wood working task with hand tools, yet most of us have jointers, planers, tablesaws, and all manner of other power equipment that essentially separates human from wood. Why should CNC be viewed any differently?
I don't own a CNC of any kind and likely never will, but I can appreciate how useful they can be for all forms of wood working.
John
Depends on your perspective, I suppose. I don't own a CNC either and like you probably never will. However, I see the tools mentioned above (I have them all) as tools to take the raw material down to size where the real "woodworking" begins. If you are a hand tool guru then those skills take it from there. If you use power tools and jigs also as I do for the finished product, using a CNC for dovetails is just another iteration up from a dovetail jig IMO.
Point is I will not be using hand planes and handsaws to mill rough cut material down to size for building an item. Will leave that task to the Roy Underhill's of the world.
Doug
RE: Shaper Origin and Half-Blind Dovetails - Admiral - 10-12-2021
(10-12-2021, 09:16 AM)Tapper Wrote: Depends on your perspective, I suppose. I don't own a CNC either and like you probably never will. However, I see the tools mentioned above (I have them all) as tools to take the raw material down to size where the real "woodworking" begins. If you are a hand tool guru then those skills take it from there. If you use power tools and jigs also as I do for the finished product, using a CNC for dovetails is just another iteration up from a dovetail jig IMO.
Point is I will not be using hand planes and handsaws to mill rough cut material down to size for building an item. Will leave that task to the Roy Underhill's of the world.
Doug
Same here; I certainly can S4S with handtools, and do it occasionally with a very wide piece of stock I don't want to cut down to joint, or sometimes with a smaller project just because I feel like it.... But I view tailed jointers and planers as a 19th century joiner would view his apprentices' work in milling down stock - but don't have to feed them (other than electrons) or teach them!!
RE: Shaper Origin and Half-Blind Dovetails - Rob Young - 10-12-2021
(10-12-2021, 10:10 AM)Admiral Wrote: Same here; I certainly can S4S with handtools, and do it occasionally with a very wide piece of stock I don't want to cut down to joint, or sometimes with a smaller project just because I feel like it.... But I view tailed jointers and planers as a 19th century joiner would view his apprentices' work in milling down stock - but don't have to feed them (other than electrons) or teach them!!This.
I have no problems doing the material prep by hand. And in fact, it may be a better idea if the stock is too small to manage safely or too large.
RE: Shaper Origin and Half-Blind Dovetails - adamcherubini - 10-19-2021
(10-12-2021, 10:10 AM)Admiral Wrote: … But I view tailed jointers and planers as a 19th century joiner would view his apprentices' work in milling down stock - but don't have to feed them (other than electrons) or teach them!!
Except that that’s not what apprentices did. Apprentices weren’t helpers. And stock prep was never a mindless task to be given to an unskilled worker before machines came into use.
I think CNC wood machines are the state of the art for modern woodworking and will, like all other wood machine innovations, become inevitable components in well equipped wood shops. I’m totally okay with it and will be curious to see what they can do. Just like 3D printers. But I think I fail to see what is fun about their use. I’ll be curious to learn.
RE: Shaper Origin and Half-Blind Dovetails - Handplanesandmore - 10-19-2021
(10-19-2021, 05:35 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: But I think I fail to see what is fun about their use.This, the fun factor, is what makes CNC and any automated woodworking machines different from non-auto or semi-auto machines. Unless someone's definition of fun is the programming part/soft skills, CNC machines and the like do not involve the kind of "hard" skills that a table saw, handplane etc, offer.
One may know to operate a router, but does one know how to do climb cuts? Not necessarily to the guy who doesn't know what a climb cut is. So a Shaper Origin is not the same as a router.
In terms of woodworking, I know S.O., CNC, 3-D printer, programmable engraving machine, etc. won't be found in my shop no matter how common they may become one day.
Simon
RE: Shaper Origin and Half-Blind Dovetails - Alan S - 10-20-2021
What is fun for me (including completing the project in a reasonable time) is what determines the tools I use.
But I fail to see any real difference between CNC and using a template to guide a powered router. The hands on aspect is equal with the shaper CNC under discussion.