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Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond stones? - Ricky - 04-24-2022

I've used waterstones for years.  I don't mind them for my kitchen knives over the sink.  I want to try something different for
sharpening my WW tools in basement shop.  I think he (Paul Sellers) uses EZE lap, anyone here using this or other brands, your input appreciated.
I'm googling and notice Best Sharpening Stones website has 8 x 3 Ultra Sharp brand 3 Stone Kit for 117 bucks. Seems a good price but don't
know anything about the brand.   I don't mind paying more for better brand/quality control.  THX


RE: Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond plates ? - TraditionalToolworks - 04-24-2022

(04-24-2022, 03:56 PM)Ricky Wrote: I've used waterstones for years.  I don't mind them for my kitchen knives over the sink.  I want to try something different for
sharpening my WW tools in basement shop.  I think he (Paul Sellers) uses EZE lap, anyone here using this or other brands, you input appreciated.
I'm googling and notice sharpening supplies site has 8 x 3 Ultra Sharp brand 3 Stone Kit for 117 bucks. Seems a good price but don't
know anything about the brand.   I don't mind paying more for better brand/quality control.  THX
I don't know about that system, so should probably keep quiet, but I won't...LOL

Since you currently have water stones you don't stand the chance of being unable to sharpen your tools by trying it.

I have a few different sharpening systems, but the one I often fall back to is an India stone and oil. I also have a Lap Sharp I bought from the the creator, he's a member of the local Bay Area Galoots for years. It is able to hold the blade precisely and get a very good edge. Not very fast, takes time the first time like any blade type edge tool, the back needs to be completely flat before you move on to the bevel. Once a blade is done it's much quicker the next time unless you nick it. Same as any other process.

I also use Japanese water stones, and have a Norton tub with the holder over the water. I just use the cheaper King stones...I find this much quicker to touch up while I'm working, just that it's messy and water is always splashing all over. I also don't have water in my current hand tool area, so I need to go into the house and fill the tub every few days, and in some ways Scary Sharp is easier with the same blade roller I use on the water stones. I use a diamond plate to flatten the water stones, but don't use it to sharpen too often. I have a fine diamond stone that's one of those key fob 'thangs that flips open, I use it for pocket knives and like a file in some cases on metal.

I probably should google, but is the Ultra Sharp dry or wet?


RE: Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond plates ? - Ricky - 04-24-2022

(04-24-2022, 04:24 PM)TraditionalToolworks Wrote: I probably should google, but is the Ultra Sharp dry or wet?

Thanks, I appreciate your input. They're 8x3 diamond 3 stone kit.  300/600/1200 grit system.   Paul uses these 3 stones and a strop for most of his tools. 
He recommends auto glass cleaner for the lubricant.  

Ultra sharp 3 stones.

P.S. I have an old India stone in a nice beech box I got almost free at a flea market. I never used it, might take it out for a test drive.


RE: Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond plates ? - Timberwolf - 04-24-2022

(04-24-2022, 04:41 PM)Ricky Wrote: Thanks, I appreciate your input.  They're 8x3 diamond 3 stone kit.  300/600/1200 grit system.   Paul uses these 3 stones and a strop for most of his tools. 
He recommends auto glass cleaner for the lubricant.  

Ultra sharp 3 stones.

P.S.  I have an old India stone in a nice beech box I got almost free at a flea market.  I never used it, might take it out for a test drive.
..............
Ricky, diamond blows anything else out of the water in grits sizes up to about 3,000,  and I  have lots of diamond sharpening hones.. Easy-Lap, DMT, No-Name etc...Been using diamond for years..Also have a cabinet of other stones, natural and UNnatural. ..Those in the link you provided look fine to me....BUT.............I have found that if you can sharpen what you need to on a shorter, circular "runway", the diamond coated steel laps are the best thing since TP was invented and THEY ARE CHEAP in comparison!!!!!! I have a Work SharpII and you should see how they work on that machine...BUT you can also use them __stationary___ if you can accept the fact that you do not have quite as long a runway with a round disc. They are readily available in larger diameters as well if you want a larger surface..You can easily sharpen a 1 3/4" wide blade in a back-forth direction and even wider if you use a side to side stroke.. ...You can buy all four grit sizes for one fourth of what you would pay for those in your link..I have been using the laps for about two years now and they cut as good today as when I bought them..They can be used dry but WD40 helps IMO..You can also remove any swarf build-up with one of those crepe rubber "Erasers" when used dry....I cannot recommend the laps highly enough....

Amazon...Diamond laps, look under industrial....

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=diamond+laps&ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_12_ts-doa-p


RE: Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond stones? - adamcherubini - 04-24-2022

I use DMT diasharp stones which look similar to those you are interested in. I buy them from sharpeningsupplies.com. In my opinion, the 1200 grit stone isn’t fine enough to use as is. You will see scratches in the edge. For resharpening, I typically start with the 1200 grit/9 micron, then use the extra extra fine, which DMT says is 8000 grit, 3 micron. You could strop after that, but I don’t. I typically final hone on a spyderco ceramic stone, then strop.

The grits are not easily translated. The extra extra fine diamonds are not equal to a ceramic stone or hard Arkansas.


RE: Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond stones? - Derek Cohen - 04-24-2022

I find it revealing that Paul Sellers uses 300/600/1000 grit diamond stones. This suggests that his sharpening method is inefficient. By contrast, many (myself included) begin their sharpening sequence from 1000 grit. Paul does not end with 1000 grit, and neither does anyone else, but this is not relevant here.

The reason he begins with 300 grit is because he has to remove more steel. The long, curved bevel face has far more steel to remove than honing a micro bevel (in the case of freehanding on the face if a hollow grind). or honing a secondary micro bevel (in the case of a honing guide). In the method I prefer - honing on a hollow - the amount of steel to remove is minuscule, and it is possible to even forgo the 1000 grit.

Regards from Perth

Derek


RE: Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond plates ? - Ricky - 04-24-2022

(04-24-2022, 07:42 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: ..............
Ricky, diamond blows anything else out of the water in grits sizes up to about 3,000,  and I  have lots of diamond sharpening hones.. Easy-Lap, DMT, No-Name etc...Been using diamond for years..Also have a cabinet of other stones, natural and UNnatural. ..Those in the link you provided look fine to me....BUT.............I have found that if you can sharpen what you need to on a shorter, circular "runway", the diamond coated steel laps are the best thing since TP was invented and THEY ARE CHEAP in comparison!!!!!! I have a Work SharpII and you should see how they work on that machine...BUT you can also use them __stationary___ if you can accept the fact that you do not have quite as long a runway with a round disc. They are readily available in larger diameters as well if you want a larger surface..You can easily sharpen a 1 3/4" wide blade in a back-forth direction and even wider if you use a side to side stroke.. ...You can buy all four grit sizes for one fourth of what you would pay for those in your link..I have been using the laps for about two years now and they cut as good today as when I bought them..They can be used dry but WD40 helps IMO..You can also remove any swarf build-up with one of those crepe rubber "Erasers" when used dry....I cannot recommend the laps highly enough....

Amazon...Diamond laps, look under industrial....

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=diamond+laps&ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_12_ts-doa-p


Thank you sir.  Will check it out.  
Yes


RE: Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond stones? - Ricky - 04-24-2022

(04-24-2022, 08:05 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: I find it revealing that Paul Sellers uses 300/600/1000 grit diamond stones. This suggests that his sharpening method is inefficient. By contrast, many (myself included) begin their sharpening sequence from 1000 grit. Paul does not end with 1000 grit, and neither does anyone else, but this is not relevant here.

The reason he begins with 300 grit is because he has to remove more steel. The long, curved bevel face has far more steel to remove than honing a micro bevel (in the case of freehanding on the face if a hollow grind). or honing a secondary micro bevel (in the case of a honing guide). In the method I prefer - honing on a hollow - the amount of steel to remove is minuscule, and it is possible to even forgo the 1000 grit.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I did find it strange that he goes back to all 3 grits and the strop every time he needs to sharpen.  (though he does it very quickly due to years of practice, and not having to use jigs).


RE: Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond stones? - Timberwolf - 04-24-2022

(04-24-2022, 07:46 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: I use DMT diasharp stones which look similar to those you are interested in. I buy them from sharpeningsupplies.com. In my opinion, the 1200 grit stone isn’t fine enough to use as is. You will see scratches in the edge. For resharpening, I typically start with the 1200 grit/9 micron, then use the extra extra fine, which DMT says is 8000 grit, 3 micron. You could strop after that, but I don’t. I typically final hone on a spyderco ceramic stone, then strop.

The grits are not easily translated. The extra extra fine diamonds are not equal to a ceramic stone or hard Arkansas.

...................
The extra extra fine diamonds are not equal to a ceramic stone or hard Arkansas.

I agree...The stated grit size is rather meaningless...especially when it says "fine", "extra-fine" etc...And until they are broken in, they cut even more coarsely. I would compare my 3,000 grit lap to a Washita, and not nearly as fine as a "Good" translucent Arki..not all Arkies are created equal..just like diamond hones.
Big Grin One thing about diamonds tho ..there's nothing they won't cut...I sharpen carbide router bit faces on them. Try that on an Arkansas and you will be at it all day, if not longer.
Crazy


RE: Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond stones? - TraditionalToolworks - 04-24-2022

I get 2000 on my finest Japanese water stone, I am not sure off the top of my head the exact grits, but I have 3 stones.

Ricky, that line says $116, I'm temped to try it, cause I would like something dry or slurry is what I would expect on the diamond. EDIT: wait a sec, only up to 1000 is limiting, I'd look for a set that goes to 2000, looks like others are pointing you in that direction. I agree, 1000 is not a bad compromise, but I currently go to 2000 on my waterstones and like that grit for detail work. I can get by at 1000 using a steeper angle, but 1000 is not good enough for some wood to get in and do detail cleanup, I like a low angle for that. I'm probably too picky...
Rolleyes

BTW, one problem I have with the lap sharp is that it doesn't work well with the Japanese chisels I use, so those I always sharpen on the water stones, and flatten them.

I have a number of western style chisels I use with the lap sharp and/or India stones.

You guys are making me feel like a real galoot now, I have used a file with huge success on my adz and even a draw knife. Since I have gotten an extra India stone in the shed, so use that on the draw knife and adz.

I wouldn't be without files or a hand grinder!
Winkgrin