+- Woodnet Forums (https://www.forums.woodnet.net)
+-- Thread: Anyone ever think what they used for (/showthread.php?tid=7370058)
Pages:
1
2
Anyone ever think what they used for - Arlin Eastman - 07-28-2022
Clamps in the bc to 1500's
I just had an idea which they had way back then was a string on both sides of one cross piece of wood/beam and to another piece of wood/beam with the thing that needed clamped between.
Then slowly twist the string or rope until it gets tight on both sides. If one side is out of square then tighten the other side more or less.
For me in using long pieces of wood I think I will try this but with cable wrapped in plastic so no glue dries on it.
Do you guys think it was possible back then doing it this way??? It makes since to me.
RE: Anyone ever think what they used for - adamcherubini - 07-29-2022
They had screw clamps more or less like ours more or less since Roman times. What you describe is practical and I’m sure people did that. A frame and wedges is also practical and efficient.
The key to clamping in the old days is understanding their glue and when and why they used it. Their glue didn’t require high clamp pressures. In fact, high pressure could extrude the glue out of the joint, weakening it. So the purpose of clamps for long edge to edge joints for example, was just to bring the joint closed and keep it there long enough for the glue to set.
Lots of architectural and other woodwork was specifically designed to avoid reliance on glue. When doing very traditional woodworking, I find I use clamps more for work holding, than gluing. For me, I use glue on practically all joints, but all of those have some other form of mechanical attachment (dovetails, mortise and tenons, nails, dowels, etc) I still rely on glue and clamps for long joints for table tops case sides etc ( and I prefer PVA/Titebond for this. But sometimes, well-prepared stock can be glued effectively with animal glue and no clamps at all.
Woodworkers love of clamps, and their complicated multi piece glue-ups characterizes modern woodworking. In my opinion, this is not necessarily better woodworking, though.
RE: Anyone ever think what they used for - Bill Tindall - 07-29-2022
(07-29-2022, 06:47 AM)adamcherubini Wrote: They had screw clamps more or less like ours more or less since Roman times. What you describe is practical and I’m sure people did that. A frame and wedges is also practical and efficient.
The key to clamping in the old days is understanding their glue and when and why they used it. Their glue didn’t require high clamp pressures. In fact, high pressure could extrude the glue out of the joint, weakening it. So the purpose of clamps for long edge to edge joints for example, was just to bring the joint closed and keep it there long enough for the glue to set.
Lots of architectural and other woodwork was specifically designed to avoid reliance on glue. When doing very traditional woodworking, I find I use clamps more for work holding, than gluing. For me, I use glue on practically all joints, but all of those have some other form of mechanical attachment (dovetails, mortise and tenons, nails, dowels, etc) I still rely on glue and clamps for long joints for table tops case sides etc ( and I prefer PVA/Titebond for this. But sometimes, well-prepared stock can be glued effectively with animal glue and no clamps at all.
Woodworkers love of clamps, and their complicated multi piece glue-ups characterizes modern woodworking. In my opinion, this is not necessarily better woodworking, though.
This reply is drifting off the original topic, but for case assembly I use clamps to pull joints tight but never leave them in place during cure. I agree that well designed furniture holds itself together. The Glue just makes the joints rigid. I found that assemblies can rebound when clamped while the glue dries resulting in an unpredictable final shape. This problem seems most apt to happen with a drawer. Hence, I pull up the joint with a clamp(s) and then take it off.
I find drawing joints together with clamp pressure works more reliably than any other means.
For a perfect fit mating surface, a rub joint, with no clamp pressure, results in a strong joint with any glue. I expect to see large amount of wood failure when banging apart blocking applied with a rub joint.
RE: Anyone ever think what they used for - Arlin Eastman - 07-29-2022
I do not think they had glue a few thousand years ago. I was thinking they needed to pull it tight to put a pin in it.
RE: Anyone ever think what they used for - adamcherubini - 07-29-2022
(07-29-2022, 07:55 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: I do not think they had glue a few thousand years ago. I was thinking they needed to pull it tight to put a pin in it.
A few thousand? I think they did. Romans had glue. Egyptians had glue. I think wood glue is pretty old, Arlin. But you are correct. They also pulled stuff together and stuck pins in.
RE: Anyone ever think what they used for - Bruce Haugen - 07-30-2022
(07-29-2022, 07:55 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: I do not think they had glue a few thousand years ago. I was thinking they needed to pull it tight to put a pin in it.
Wrong, Grasshopper! Chairs in ancient Egypt dating back to 2000 bc were put together with hide glue.
RE: Anyone ever think what they used for - AHill - 07-30-2022
Lots of cabinetmakers didn't need clamps. I had a great uncle who used to make primitive furniture in Appalachia who simply used dovetails, pegs, and wedges to keep things together.
Hide glue and fish glue have been around for a very long time. The Egyptians used both as far back as 2000 BC.
Good article on the subject:
http://www.theclampguy.info/hist.htm
RE: Anyone ever think what they used for - Derek Cohen - 07-30-2022
I’ve just returned from a trip to Uluru (the Aboriginal name for Ayer’s Rock), which is at the centre of Oz …
![[Image: 19.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/fbK5QR13/19.jpg)
Pretty sparse for thousands of miles …
![[Image: 7.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/pL1VyWD7/7.jpg)
The Desert Oak, the most common tree …
![[Image: 16.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/05HWNrjD/16.jpg)
This land is 440 million years old, and there is not much animal hide glue available … but there is cellulose-based glue, and this has been used for millennia …
![[Image: 5E7DFF9F-E24C-473A-88C8-7073F8A8BF6A.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/mgRZkjkz/5E7DFF9F-E24C-473A-88C8-7073F8A8BF6A.jpg)
With regard to clamps, the Aboriginals would hold clamping parties, where a tribe would get together to all sit on a joint until it dried.
Just kidding about that last one.
Regards from Perth
Derek
RE: Anyone ever think what they used for - bandit571 - 07-31-2022
Years ago...back when I was making stools and other items with turned legs....
A inner tube from a bicycle tire...wrapped around the legs where the stretchers/rungs needed to be glued in....Criss-crossed to be above and below the joints...then fill the inner tube with air.....I seem to think it took around 90 psi....let sit a day..to remove, just let the air back out.
RE: Anyone ever think what they used for - Arlin Eastman - 07-31-2022
(07-30-2022, 01:33 PM)Bruce Haugen Wrote: Wrong, Grasshopper! Chairs in ancient Egypt dating back to 2000 bc were put together with hide glue.
I am always learning.
It is sometimes hard to think of what all they used way back in Timberwolfs time. 
