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+-- Thread: Can't do overlapping with alcohol dye (/showthread.php?tid=7373414)
Can't do overlapping with alcohol dye - Bencuri - 07-06-2023
I have been trying to use alcohol dye (aniline dye), but never succeed to paint the wood nicely with it. The problem is: when there is a spot where brushstrokes overlap, usually they will become visible as darker stripes. A frequent problem for example: You paint the sides, then you paint he top side, and tip off the egde from excess, but even if the dye is still wet on the sides and the surface there seems to be uniform, the outcome will be a stripe from tipping when the dye dries. So just one little unwanted overlap, and the woodpiece is garbage. Something that is really annoying. And that's a pity, because I prefer alcohol dyes to water dyes, the colors are more vibrant. But because of this problem I cannot use them at all. Any idea how to avoid this problem? See the photo as example attached.
[attachment=47790]
RE: Can't do overlapping with alcohol dye - jteneyck - 07-06-2023
(07-06-2023, 06:11 PM)Bencuri Wrote: I have been trying to use alcohol dye (aniline dye), but never succeed to paint the wood nicely with it. The problem is: when there is a spot where brushstrokes overlap, usually they will become visible as darker stripes. A frequent problem for example: You paint the sides, then you paint he top side, and tip off the egde from excess, but even if the dye is still wet on the sides and the surface there seems to be uniform, the outcome will be a stripe from tipping when the dye dries. So just one little unwanted overlap, and the woodpiece is garbage. Something that is really annoying. And that's a pity, because I prefer alcohol dyes to water dyes, the colors are more vibrant. But because of this problem I cannot use them at all. Any idea how to avoid this problem? See the photo as example attached.
Two basic options. Spraying the dye is the best way, especially if you spray two or more lower coats at lower concentration to build the color to what your want. Second best is to flood the dye on with a sponge, squeeze out the sponge, and then wipe the surfaces to remove any excess.
Using a brush is a guaranteed loser.
John
RE: Can't do overlapping with alcohol dye - Willyou - 07-07-2023
(07-06-2023, 07:19 PM)jteneyck Wrote: Two basic options. Spraying the dye is the best way, especially if you spray two or more lower coats at lower concentration to build the color to what your want. Second best is to flood the dye on with a sponge, squeeze out the sponge, and then wipe the surfaces to remove any excess.
Using a brush is a guaranteed loser.
John
Yes. A third option is to use your lesser preference and use water rather than alcohol. Alcohol dries too fast. Yes, it will raise the grain somewhat. I always follow the dye (after it dries) with a light spray of shellac or whatever final finish you are going to use (spray cans work fine for this). Let it dry and then knock off the nibs with a light sanding. This also seals in the dye and prevents subsequent coats of finish from pulling and streaking the dye.
RE: Can't do overlapping with alcohol dye - Bencuri - 07-08-2023
(07-06-2023, 07:19 PM)jteneyck Wrote: Two basic options. Spraying the dye is the best way, especially if you spray two or more lower coats at lower concentration to build the color to what your want. Second best is to flood the dye on with a sponge, squeeze out the sponge, and then wipe the surfaces to remove any excess.
Using a brush is a guaranteed loser.
John
I have tried with a sponge, and also wiping, but they don't seem to work well. When you wipe it too much of the dye comes off. The solution seems to be being very fast instead. 1 pass on every surface, very fast. The problem is, though, that there is very big chance for errors. One small unwanted touch, a little dip, accidentally overlapping somewhere, skpping a little surface, and the finish will be junk.
RE: Can't do overlapping with alcohol dye - jteneyck - 07-08-2023
(07-08-2023, 05:36 PM)Bencuri Wrote: I have tried with a sponge, and also wiping, but they don't seem to work well. When you wipe it too much of the dye comes off. The solution seems to be being very fast instead. 1 pass on every surface, very fast. The problem is, though, that there is very big chance for errors. One small unwanted touch, a little dip, accidentally overlapping somewhere, skpping a little surface, and the finish will be junk.
No substitute for practice, no matter how you go about it. As WillYou said, it's a little easier with water, or even a 50/50 mix of alcohol/water. And as I said earlier, spraying is the easiest way to apply dye evenly.
John
RE: Can't do overlapping with alcohol dye - Bencuri - 07-08-2023
(07-08-2023, 06:25 PM)jteneyck Wrote: No substitute for practice, no matter how you go about it. As WillYou said, it's a little easier with water, or even a 50/50 mix of alcohol/water. And as I said earlier, spraying is the easiest way to apply dye evenly.
John
But in case of spraying, the alcohol dye will still form irregularities on the overlapped areas, won't it?
RE: Can't do overlapping with alcohol dye - jteneyck - 07-09-2023
(07-08-2023, 09:36 PM)Bencuri Wrote: But in case of spraying, the alcohol dye will still form irregularities on the overlapped areas, won't it?
There's no substitute for good technique gained by practice. And using at least two layers of lower concentration dye to build the color will minimize any overlap differences.
You can be successful several different ways. Some of them are easier than others to master but all will work with enough practice.
Here's a door I rebuilt. I stripped the frame so I could add a wider bottom rail. I did not strip the center panel.
![[Image: AIL4fc_R6eLGxWypNoiCqln_HLhqr9G-i3-crNuB...authuser=0]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc_R6eLGxWypNoiCqln_HLhqr9G-i3-crNuB9tbJxwZ2W2V7_WU24EUwsv6WiA6APW66ZagHw6UH25f0CPEVZMqsEeyEJvy-y69VAzla6MfKfhJhZzzbetFkKaaB2DaaszgRKfrnPNeaNgIdMSUf6OUkgA=w1190-h893-s-no?authuser=0)
After the new rail was installed, I dyed the frame using a mix of dye that I sprayed on. The tape on the edge of the stile was to protect it from too many coats of dye since I had sprayed the edges when I did the other side.
![[Image: AIL4fc8NLemyG-JoHb3eUiasUFd9C4Z1QyatFb0O...authuser=0]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc8NLemyG-JoHb3eUiasUFd9C4Z1QyatFb0O0HoIjjZM-l39FxL3Z5iAWJ-YLobP7O1ImZcm5G1FfnySG7hiSmn2hfdb862oHK7oBU3Awn_WejfzTIfnGeNv6JjAbMWrDeDDYQs2UwzZTK5a4zFvNwhaUQ=w1190-h893-s-no?authuser=0)
I think I added some dye to the varnish topcoat, too, but I'm not quite sure. Anyway, this is what it looked like when I was done.
![[Image: AIL4fc8a12keEkMXUp5p527k5w1mYDMQQd74Gto7...authuser=0]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc8a12keEkMXUp5p527k5w1mYDMQQd74Gto7jpwWpO_-kxmdcfQSoOsUVk6TWHLmh03jmLiE4Sax56V10e1zpd4ms8Nn8fFMLf1Sv362b0xUdJVy3MLIvumQbrX9qoeg6qgYHYBsyVX33Gs4XWrXs29JOQ=w670-h893-s-no?authuser=0)
John
RE: Can't do overlapping with alcohol dye - Willyou - 07-09-2023
To reiterate, I built a desk a few years ago with a very large top. I used Transtint dye mixed in water and was able to easily spread it over the entire area and make sure it was evenly distributed before it dried. There was lots of working time and no resulting overlapping streaks.
RE: Can't do overlapping with alcohol dye - Bencuri - 07-09-2023
(07-09-2023, 03:14 PM)Willyou Wrote: To reiterate, I built a desk a few years ago with a very large top. I used Transtint dye mixed in water and was able to easily spread it over the entire area and make sure it was evenly distributed before it dried. There was lots of working time and no resulting overlapping streaks.
This is fine but water dye is much easier to work with. I use that at the moment, as well, but the color of the alcohol dye seems more vibrant to me, at least the selection that is available here.
RE: Can't do overlapping with alcohol dye - Bencuri - 07-09-2023
(07-09-2023, 01:55 PM)jteneyck Wrote: There's no substitute for good technique gained by practice. And using at least two layers of lower concentration dye to build the color will minimize any overlap differences.
You can be successful several different ways. Some of them are easier than others to master but all will work with enough practice.
Here's a door I rebuilt. I stripped the frame so I could add a wider bottom rail. I did not strip the center panel.
After the new rail was installed, I dyed the frame using a mix of dye that I sprayed on. The tape on the edge of the stile was to protect it from too many coats of dye since I had sprayed the edges when I did the other side.
I think I added some dye to the varnish topcoat, too, but I'm not quite sure. Anyway, this is what it looked like when I was done.
John
But is this alcohol dye? :OOOO
If it is, spraying does seem to be the proper method. Maybe I will put the packs I purchased aside and will test them when I buy a sprayer.
However I did think the problem and suggested solutions over, and I concluded the real problem may not be the darkening because of the overlapping. It is more or less controllable with care. The bigger problem is that in case of overlapping, the dye always tend to accumulate along a dark thin line at the edge of the overlapping, that is not always obvious when you finish applying the dye. That is the real annoying problem with all this. Interestingly the water dye does not do that, sometimes a bit darker on overlapped areas, but I rarely see lines formed. If this could be eliminated, brushing or sponging would work, too, without needing to wipe, and ruining the color. Do you think there is a solution for that? To control the movement of the dye in this sense? I thought about using mineral spirits to dissolve it, but maybe that will just lengthen the drying time, but not stop the dye to form lines, that are visible on my photo. Any chemical that can help?