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Electrical service?: combing 2 - Gary G™ - 08-17-2023
For non-basement visitors:
The basic question: how much to combine my two electrical meters into one service?
Details:
The property has 2 meters; the house and a shop.
They both source from the same transformer.
The shop runs overhead about 50' to a pole; the weatherhead runs down this pole behind the shop to the meter and then to the original outside panel.
I believe the main breaker in this panel is 60 Amp.
This panel has a breaker for the well, one small GFI, and my shop.
I believe the shop has 2/0 AWG wire running underground from the outside panel into the panel in the shop w/ a 100 Amp main breaker (I'm fairly certain of all this except for the wire gauge—it’s only about a 12’ run but 2/0 seems correct).
Although I have a number of circuits for lights and tools, I rarely use more than 3 circuits at any one time. I've never popped a breaker.
Most are 15 Amp, might be some 20's; there's at least one 30 Amp for the 220 cabinet saw.
Lots of space for more circuits but rather unlikely to happen.
The power for the house runs from the same transformer as the shop but it runs straight down the pole and then underground about 200' to 250’ to the meter. The main panel in the house is almost directly behind the meter.
The distance from the outside panel at the shop is 150-200' from the house main panel.
The house service is 200 Amp.
The house panel is most likely 200 Amp and also has numerous open slots.
The reason for all this is Duke raised the minimum rate for service to $30.00 and the shop barely uses $12.50.
I realize more specifics are needed to get a quote but can anyone ballpark an estimate somewhere between a bunt and a home run?
Can you tell from this info whether we need a new sub panel in the house or if the shop's main panel can be wired into the existing house panel?
Would a 125 Amp circuit be sufficient?
What wire is needed to run from the shop to the house?
If this were you, would you move the circuit for the well to the shop and bypass the outside panel too—ignoring the GFI?
Thanks
Gary
RE: Electrical service?: combing 2 - crokett™ - 08-17-2023
As I recall you live in the same state as me, albeit different counties. At our previous house I upgraded the main panel and added the shop panel to it. The run from the house to the shop was ~140'. I used 2-2-2-4 aluminum, rated for 100A but had to derate to 90A for the shop because of the distance, which was fine. Aluminum was considerably cheaper than copper. You'll have to get the exact distance and derate accordingly, or buy larger wire. Derating will limit the size of the breaker you can install in the main panel. My napkin calculation at the time was something like max 55A used absolute worst case. I did it myself. This was 14 years ago, and IIRC I was into it for about 850 in materials and the trencher rental, which included the new panel, aluminum feeder, conduit and breakers and wiring. You may not be buying a new panel so you will be into it for the cable, new breaker and whatever the cable burial costs. I can't guesstimate what it will cost to do, since materials are all over the map right now. I would look at material cost then multiply that by 2.5 and that is a good enough estimate.
As to whether you need a new sub, it depends on if you have a main breaker at the house. Shutting off all circuits in a panel a maximum of "6 motions of the hand" is allowed. So this means either a max of 6 breakers in a panel without a main, having a main, or having a sub fed by a breaker. I had to upgrade my main panel because of this at the old house. If you have circuits available in your sub panel and it is rated for more than 100A then you're ok.
I would not move the well circuit to the shop without a compelling reason to do so. There's additional costs to change something that's working. Also If I didn't have a whole-house generator and relied on a portable generator, it would be more difficult to power the well.
RE: Electrical service?: combing 2 - srv52761 - 08-17-2023
In my car waiting for wife, but these are some of the costs off the top of my head....
200' of feeder (mhf 2-2-2-4) @3.87 = 774
90 amp breaker at main =45
Lug for neutral = 6
2" conduit for interior = 25
Conduit fittings= 75 (the expansion couplers are 27 ea.)
Noalox = 7
Trencher rental (24")=160
Assume you already have two ground rods at that pole.
That "six throw"rule was supplanted by an single throw disconnect at the location in 2020 NEC. = 45
Can use your old panel and breakers.