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+-- Thread: Interesting counterpoint on Titebond (I) vs. Hide Glue (/showthread.php?tid=7375488)
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Interesting counterpoint on Titebond (I) vs. Hide Glue - C. in Indy - 03-28-2024
I had this video playing in the background recently, and I caught some interesting viewpoints on the merits of Hide Glue.
I won't make you watch the whole thing about a Violin repair. This fellow's on-topic points are basically:
- Titebond Original wood glue is consistently able to be loosened as needed for service.
- He's never had a failure with Titebond Original, but he's seen some failures with Hide glue.
- Sometimes Hide glue isn't so loosen-able as touted. He thinks that various dead hides have various chemistries.
https://youtu.be/zzHCXV1rbN0?si=5Yu-sTGpKpOj0_qL
It's a refreshing viewpoint. For a few years I was finding Titebond Liquid Hide glue at Ace Hardware, but not lately. So I'm more back to Titebond PVA glues.
RE: Interesting counterpoint on Titebond (I) vs. Hide Glue - Barry Johnson - 03-28-2024
Haven't watched the video, and I'd rather just ask. How does one loosen titebond? Heat and moisture like all the others?
RE: Interesting counterpoint on Titebond (I) vs. Hide Glue - C. in Indy - 03-29-2024
Yes -- but only for original Titebond I type: he loosens it with heat (& possibly moisture).
He does say he can't loosen the Titebond 2/ 3 PVA glue types this way.
RE: Interesting counterpoint on Titebond (I) vs. Hide Glue - cpolubin - 03-29-2024
The other half to consider is that Titebond doesn't stick to Titebond so you have to remove all the old glue before reglueing the joint where with Hide Glue you just add more Hide Glue to reactivate the glue.
Cliff
RE: Interesting counterpoint on Titebond (I) vs. Hide Glue - Admiral - 03-29-2024
https://michiganwoodworkersguild.com/wp-content/uploads/documents/Titebond-Glue-Documents/Titebond-Wood-Glue-Comparison-Chart-FAQ.pdf#:~:text=For%20Titebond%20wood%20glues%2C%20heat%20is%20the%20best,and%20may%20be%20sufficient%20to%20open%20the%20joint.
I've always found this FAQ useful. They say TB glues open up with temperatures over 150 and suggest steam.
RE: Interesting counterpoint on Titebond (I) vs. Hide Glue - Steve Hamlin - 03-31-2024
Just so Cliff. I also wouldn't use TB on a stressed joint where creep could be an issue (instruments travel and regularly get subjected to less than ideal heat and humidity - it's just their lot in life.)
Violins are designed to be dismantled more easily than fretted strings (the style of top and bottom attachment to ribs) and would think the extra work needed for every repair and slippage issues would rule out TB unless you were about to emigrate.
The thought of working on an instrument with TBed cracks is enough to start boiling up the dog's bone - with a new crack it's almost trivial with HG, put that crap in and it's just not sound and re-repair is necessarily more invasive)
TB also a pain for finish, whilst HG is transparent (heck, some finishing regimens use it as a size instead of a shellac spit coat)
RE: Interesting counterpoint on Titebond (I) vs. Hide Glue - wmickley - 04-01-2024
I often turn down restoration work if there is evidence of Titebond glue. It is difficult to get stuff apart without damage.
RE: Interesting counterpoint on Titebond (I) vs. Hide Glue - Scoony - 04-01-2024
For some reason, can't remember exactly, but I never liked Titebond II. Been many years, but I seem to recall that I was having glue joint failures with it. Never had an issue with the original Titebond, so I use that. The only time I use the III is for cutting boards. I also use hide glue, but hide glue tends to be more of a mess. Get a few drops of Titebond on the floor, and no issues. Get a few drops of hide glue on the floor and next thing I know, I am dragging all the wood shavings around the shop with my feet.
RE: Interesting counterpoint on Titebond (I) vs. Hide Glue - hbmcc - 04-08-2024
(04-01-2024, 09:18 AM)wmickley Wrote: I often turn down restoration work if there is evidence of Titebond glue. It is difficult to get stuff apart without damage.
Agreed. Wooden musical instruments are prime examples of repairability. Reputable shops don't have modern glues. With life expectancies in the hundreds of years one repair using a yellow glue will ruin the instrument. In fact they are built with natural glues based on expected damage and eventual repair, repeated repairs.
RE: Interesting counterpoint on Titebond (I) vs. Hide Glue - AHill - 04-09-2024
(04-08-2024, 12:01 PM)hbmcc Wrote: Agreed. Wooden musical instruments are prime examples of repairability. Reputable shops don't have modern glues. With life expectancies in the hundreds of years one repair using a yellow glue will ruin the instrument. In fact they are built with natural glues based on expected damage and eventual repair, repeated repairs.
Interesting statement, since Taylor, Martin, and Gibson all use modern glues on their guitars unless it's a special instrument made with hide glue. Many claim that hide glue makes for a better tone in a guitar.