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Workbench - Tapper - 04-22-2024
20+ years ago I built the Traditional European workbench featured in Woodsmith #50. Served me well but is now pretty tired. Top has split, the quick release face vise has failed and I find the handle on the tail vise getting in the way at that end. I have quite a bit of lumber squirreled away for the undercarriage but will probably have to purchase the material for the top.
I'm thinking about a Roubo style bench because I like the idea of the front legs being inline with the front edge of the top. I will probably opt for a face vise on the front left (I've acquired a Record quick-release model) and am thinking of using a wagon vise from Hovarter on the right end. I've spoken with Len Horarter (the inventor) a couple of times, nice guy, very customer oriented and this vise seems to be somewhat unique and easy to install.
This original bench had a tray on the back of the top, which I've rarely ever used. The bench top in total is 27" wide by about 5 1/2' long, plenty large enough for my purposes. I do not do any exoitic woodworking, i.e. I'm looking for a practical and functional bench. For dovetails a separate Moxon vise will work.
Things to think about:
1) Size of the top - On my original bench I used a lot of reclaimed material for the top; good at the time, not-so-good in the long run. I made the aprons to the spec of 3 1/2" thick (including the section for the traditional dogs) and the rest of the top right at 2" or so. Should I go with a thick 4" top all the way or just on the aprons?
2) Material - My present bench is made entirely of hardwoods. In Chris Schwartz's book on workbenches, he recommends Southern Yellow Pine as well as other species. Any ideas?
3) Dogs - The traditional retangular, angled, through-the-top dogs in the past were pretty much the standard. Now it seems that round dogs like the ones sold by Lee Valley are popular. Some are through dogs (penetrate the top) and others only protrude a couple of inches and stop. Same thing on the slide unit for the Wagon Vise. I've thought about reusing the original dog unit from my old vise, just to save material and time. What say you?
Would appreciate your opinions and thoughts on these items as well as any others you might consider important.
Doug
RE: Workbench - hbmcc - 04-22-2024
Bench surface:
If you talk yellow pine you are probably eastern half of US. Local wood species is usually easiest and cheapest options. You are blessed with a variety of soft and hard wood.
SYP has some pretty extreme grain variation, and in a softwood a washboard will show up quickly. It and its Doug fir counterpart can be frustrating if you count on a smooth build surface. However, if a user then the surface can be any cheap material. Just toss and replace when resurfacing goes too shallow. I look for salvage yards and local mills for my wood. Glu-lams are your friend.
RE: Workbench - Tapper - 04-22-2024
Thanks for the comments. Chris Schwartz sourced his SYP from Home Centers, for me that would be Home Depot and Lowe's. Chose the best 2x12's from the racks and milled them down to the dimensions for the top, legs, etc. I'm leaning towards a hardwood top, maybe spring for maple. I thought about an MDF top similar to what Rob Cosman offers but don't think I'd be happy with that look and feel.
Doug
RE: Workbench - tablesawtom - 04-22-2024
I have built a couple of Nickelson style benches made out of SYP sourced from Home Depot. I cut them out of 2x10s and 2x12s. Personally I think there was just a little to much moisture in the middle of the planks. You will find that in commercial grade lumber. Since you asked, personally I would never use SYP for a top no matter what again. I think it is to soft if you are planning on using holdfasts and dents to easily
[attachment=50726]
I think Ash is the best wood for the top. Some wood bounce on impact, Ash absorbs the blows and doesn't transmit it back to your hands. There are lots of Ash trees getting cut down because of the Ash Betel The betel kills the tree but doesn't infest the tree
Here are some pictures of my bench, I like the shoulder vise. It is open tot the floor unlike a leg vise. You mentioned a Moxon vise for dove tails, don't need one. The tail vise is the vise that I use most of the time and I wouldn't want to be with out one
[attachment=50733]
The next picture is the back side of my bench. It is set up left handed. It is basically a Roubo style bench. I am left handed but I use this side less than 10 % of the time
[attachment=50734]
You can see I have both a tail vise and a wagon vise. I prefer the tail vise.
[attachment=50735]
I will get back to you an some of your other questions
Tom
RE: Workbench - EdL - 04-22-2024
I built a Roubo, used Schwartz's plans.
Lee Valley face vice & Benchcrafted wagon vice. Made it from Honey Locust, I had the logs and milled to them thick just for the bench.
Wasn't the best choice for material, open grain with lots of "reversal" and it's unstable, but very hard.
Overall, I don't think I!would change anything.
SYP is a good choice, heavy and hard. Sadly, I can't buy it here. Truss companies use it,
won't sell it to you, I tried several, nope.
Ed
RE: Workbench - jteneyck - 04-22-2024
Tom, your bench is awesome. I love everything about it, assuming you can cover that center tray when you need a big flat benchtop, like I almost always do.
I built a Euro vise following the plans by Frank Clauz in FWW many years ago, but I eliminated the tool tray and made the top solid. Tail vise, shoulder vise, never had reason to look for something else. If I were to build a new bench I would use round bench dog holes rather than the traditional rectangular ones. Round holes allow more things to be used with them. Also, I added a deadman to my bench and highly recommend one. Together with the shoulder vise it allows you to easily hold workpieces of many sizes.
I would not use SYP for a top; it's too inconsistent in hardness. Nor would I use construction lumber of any kind. You're going to spend a lot of time building a bench. Use good materials. Ash is a fine choice, but any durable hardwood is suitable. Mine's made from old maple laboratory bench tops. If time was a consideration, I'd look hard at using a commercial benchtop and cut it to fit my needs. If money were a major driver, I would look for whatever is the best buy locally. If you want to use a hold fast the top needs to be thick enough to make it effective. Otherwise, there's no benefit besides mass.
Doug, if you plan to do much heavy hand work, make it heavy. Mass (and rigidity) is your friend when hand planing. Those dinky small benches might be OK for gentlemen work, but are woefully inadequate for anything more.
OK, and now I just have to tell you that I use my big, ugly, flat, Masonite topped bench 10X more than my Euro bench. If you primarily are a hand tool worker, which I don't think you are, build a great Euro style bench. But if you mostly use power tools, a simple flat bench with a standard woodworking vise and some sort of open bottom vise is all you need. Add some round bench dog holes, and put a shelf or set of drawers below the top and you're set for most any job. And size? Bigger than you think you need. Mine was 30" x 8 ft. Now it's 36" wide. 40" x 9 ft. would be even better.
John
RE: Workbench - Tapper - 04-22-2024
Thanks to you all who've responded and shared your suggestions, views and ideas about a workbench.
I was never very excited about using SYP as a top and your comments seem to confirm my concerns about it. Cost is always a consideration but in this case not a swinger. Worst thing I could do would be to invest time and money in a new bench and then not be pleased with the result.
Tom, your bench definitely sets the "benchmark" - beautiful bench and work! Thanks for sharing the pictures; seems I've seen some shots of it here before. Unfortunately, I don't have the room and am not willing to take the time to build such a complete and ambitious bench. The bench in the link I posted seems to suit my needs pretty well. Not perfect but pretty adequate. In fact I've considered just trying to repair and modify it to accommodate the changes I want to make. Mainly change out both vises and beef it up a little.
Ed, I looked at the Benchcrafted wagon vise and attempted to communicate with them about it. Not much customer service going on there so I decided to keep looking. I like that Hovarter wagon vise and the Record face vise combo; good enough for what I do.
John, you and I have talked about this before and you're right, I don't do any sophisticated hand work. The things I do are usually a combination of power tools augmented with hand tools. The round dog holes seem to be pretty popular these days. It certainly eliminates the involved task of making the unit with rectangular dog holes; pretty involved and time consuming.
My guess is that your Masonite bench is mostly for assembly, maybe? Right now I don't really have an assembly table. That happens on my workbench, unfortunately. Tom mentioned Ash as a material and I've heard that suggested before. I'll take a look at the availability at my local supplier. I'm still considering modifying my present bench. It isn't because of the cost of a new bench as much as the time it takes to build one. I have other things on the "to do" list and with summer coming on, the LOML and I have some activities planned that involve travel, as well as community involvement, but I digress.
You mentioned buying a premade benchtop. I know Grizzly and a some others sell these. Most of the ones I've seen are pretty thin, in the 1 1/2 to 2 inch range. And then there is the shipping. I'm pretty sure I do not have any availability in my relatively small town.
Thickness of the top. Should I decide to build a new bench top, what thickness do you recommend? Should it be 4" all the way across? I read an article in a FWW issue on a bench build and the guy recommended 4" thickness on the front and back aprons. He built the middle portion of the bench with thinner planks.
I definitely want to eliminate the tray as it hasn't been used very much. The width on my bench at 27" seems to be adequate. Should I build a new top I think I'd try to make it at least 72" long - not too long, not too short.
Keep your thoughts, suggestions and ideas coming!
Thanks,
Doug
RE: Workbench - tablesawtom - 04-23-2024
I mentioned Ash only because Ash trees are dying right and left around here. Ash is the only wood that I know of, that you can cut a tree down, split it and burn in in your fire place that night. It is dry enough tp burn right a way.
So it doesn't take much to dry it to the moisture content needed. One might get some really nice prices at the local saw mill because of availability.
Any hardwood will work. The top of my bench pictured, is hickory. I got it at an auction dirt cheap and so I used it. It does not matter whether you use SYP, Douglas fir, or any hard wood of your choice the the work of laminating it is the same. And quality is long remembered after a cheap price is forgotten. SYP and Douglas fir are construction grade and are only dried to 20% so there is still a lot of moisture you have to contend with.
I have a doctors appointment shortly so I can't stay at it , but I do have something to say about thickness, so buying a premade hardwood bench top from Grizzly, just doesn't fit the bill.
When a person visits my shop, my bench takes center stage. And it should say everything about your skill as a woodworker. First impressions mater.
Tom
RE: Workbench - Bill Holt - 04-23-2024
Built my bench almost 20 years ago. I was new to woodworking...it would be my "practice build". I had a source for free reclaimed SYP. I did not like the looks, I thought it would be too soft, etc. But free won out. I did have some left-over walnut to dovetail on both ends. I'm shocked at how hard it became.
Suggestions:
3" top
6" apron
round dog holes closer than 6"
It's not perfect, but it is likely the most indispensable tool in my shop.
RE: Workbench - titanxt - 04-23-2024
I, also, made a Roubo bench several years ago. I used SYP and I do not have any regrets using that particular wood. It has held up very well and like Bill said above, it is plenty hard. I love the look of a nice ash or maple work bench, but the increased cost does not seem to be worth it for my needs. I purchased the SYP from Lowes and was able to choose 2x12s that were straight and did not have any knots on the edges. I ripped the 2x12s in half and my bench top ended up 5” thick. I have flattened it maybe once after a few years, but it was more for aesthetic purposed than it needing it.
It is HEAVY and I chose to go a bit old school with the clamping methods and did not install an end vise, nor do I use any metal stops. I waited to drill 3/4” holes in the top where I use 3/4” dowels wrapped in leather after using the bench a few times. What I do is make a circle on the top of the bench with a pencil when I think I could use a dog hole in that position. I keep Roman numeral hash marks inside the circle every time I could have I used a dog hole in that position. After 4 or 5 hash marks, I drill a hole.
Here is a link for a lot of pictures showing some of the clamping option I use and the bench:
http://www.creeativewoodworking.net/mahogany-saber-case.html