My Unicorn - Stanley #8 Type 17

[JoethePro]

I try not to be a collector - but I guess I am. I've looked for 8+ years (on and off) for a Stanley #8 type 17, but I've never found one, or even seen a photo of one. That changed tonight!

I started to pull the trigger, but I'm not going to do it. I've got a daughter who's turning 3, and another who was born 10 days ago. It's not like I need it at this moment!

I've actually added a few since I took this (3, 4, 4 1/2, 5, 7 pictured):

I've got a 3, 4, 4 1/2, 5 1/4, 5, 5 1/2, 6, 7. The 8 would be nice.

Some have asked "Why type 17?" - I just love the historical significance of the wartime changes.
EDIT-Included a full list of my current inventory.

[Martin S.]

I was always told to watch out for the ones with 3 patent dates, I think they are Type 11's.

I know the Type 17's are supposed to be heavier castings, and they have the rubber or plastic adjustment knob, but other than that, are there any changes that make them better planes?

[tim_leo]

Don't give up on the dream...pull the trigger.

[Admiral]

Martin S. said:

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I was always told to watch out for the ones with 3 patent dates, I think they are Type 11's.

I know the Type 17's are supposed to be heavier castings, and they have the rubber or plastic adjustment knob, but other than that, are there any changes that make them better planes?

---

Martin: Basically, T17s have several characteristics, one being thicker castings, and the real story around this is from Walt, who spoke to someone who worked there during the war. When the war started, a lot of the skilled workforce went into the service, and the replacement staff had a hard time at first getting the machining just right and there was a defect rate that was unacceptable, so they just machined until it was right, then stopped short of the sole and cheek wall spec. The other change related to this was the elimination of the frog adjustment screw, as the drilling and tapping of the frog added a step, slowed production and required some skill (its not like frog adjustment was critical, the screw didn't appear until 1907, T10 planes).

Rosewood was in short supply, so the tote and knob were painted hardwood, and the brass nuts on the tote and knob screws were changed to a one-piece steel screw, which required modification to the drilling of the tote and knob, so T17 wood requires the use of the steel screw if you use it to replace a tote on an earlier or later plane. Same with the brass iron adjustment wheel, replaced by a steel one (not that common, but not uncommon, I suspect it was an experiment) and the Bakelite one (the first real plastic). Also, if you're lucky, many of the irons have a date stamp "243" which would mean the second fiscal quarter of 1943, dating the plane exactly. Those date stamps also occur in T16 planes, but I see them mostly in T17 planes. As an aside, the Bakelite was made in South Bound Brook, NJ along the banks of the Raritan River.

Now, you will find some planes with wartime characteristics that don't exactly match all of these changes, principally some have a frog adjusting screw (indicating either early production as they used up previously made parts, or late - as they phased it back in), you also find them with a brass adjustment wheel but with hardwood handles and no frog screw, so they used up parts. I've always suspected that the brass wheel might have been a user replacement, but who knows.

None of these changes made it a "better" plane than the T16, but it was of equal quality in terms of fit an finish. I find them to be very good users, and interesting in the sense of the changes, and combination of changes, noted above. It does have some additional heft which some folks appreciate. My main user #5 is a wartime plane, and so is my main #7 user. So I'm a fan, just not into collecting a full set, although I can see why folks do.

[Martin S.]

Thanks for the background, Admiral.

[Scott W]

[blockquote]JoethePro said:

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I've got a daughter who's turning 3, and another who was born 10 days ago. It's not like I need it at this moment!
[blockquote]Quote:

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Sneaky gloat? CONGRATULATIONS on the girl. I had one 11 months ago and I will tell you it does change a few things....but....big but here....if you have the cash buy the 8. I don't have much time for personal pursuits but I have kept and do occasionally acquire some things that I know I will want. Besides, who will properly teach your girls how to joint an edge without a good type 17 #8????

I think you know what to do.

Please post a pic of the new baby when you get it....oh, we like real baby pics too.

[JoethePro]

Thanks for the prodding all. I bought it

The gentlemen selling it was nice enough to give an MWTCA discount when I asked, so that basically made the decision for me

I'll post up some pictures when I get it. For now, here's some baby:

[cputnam]

Awwww.........

[Arch_E]

Admiral said:

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[blockquote]Martin S. said:

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I was always told to watch out for the ones with 3 patent dates, I think they are Type 11's.

I know the Type 17's are supposed to be heavier castings, and they have the rubber or plastic adjustment knob, but other than that, are there any changes that make them better planes?

---

Martin: Basically, T17s have several characteristics, one being thicker castings, and the real story around this is from Walt, who spoke to someone who worked there during the war. When the war started, a lot of the skilled workforce went into the service, and the replacement staff had a hard time at first getting the machining just right and there was a defect rate that was unacceptable, so they just machined until it was right, then stopped short of the sole and cheek wall spec. The other change related to this was the elimination of the frog adjustment screw, as the drilling and tapping of the frog added a step, slowed production and required some skill (its not like frog adjustment was critical, the screw didn't appear until 1907, T10 planes).

Rosewood was in short supply, so the tote and knob were painted hardwood, and the brass nuts on the tote and knob screws were changed to a one-piece steel screw, which required modification to the drilling of the tote and knob, so T17 wood requires the use of the steel screw if you use it to replace a tote on an earlier or later plane. Same with the brass iron adjustment wheel, replaced by a steel one (not that common, but not uncommon, I suspect it was an experiment) and the Bakelite one (the first real plastic). Also, if you're lucky, many of the irons have a date stamp "243" which would mean the second fiscal quarter of 1943, dating the plane exactly. Those date stamps also occur in T16 planes, but I see them mostly in T17 planes. As an aside, the Bakelite was made in South Bound Brook, NJ along the banks of the Raritan River.

Now, you will find some planes with wartime characteristics that don't exactly match all of these changes, principally some have a frog adjusting screw (indicating either early production as they used up previously made parts, or late - as they phased it back in), you also find them with a brass adjustment wheel but with hardwood handles and no frog screw, so they used up parts. I've always suspected that the brass wheel might have been a user replacement, but who knows.

None of these changes made it a "better" plane than the T16, but it was of equal quality in terms of fit an finish. I find them to be very good users, and interesting in the sense of the changes, and combination of changes, noted above. It does have some additional heft which some folks appreciate. My main user #5 is a wartime plane, and so is my main #7 user. So I'm a fan, just not into collecting a full set, although I can see why folks do.

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[/blockquote]



Admiral, this is superb info! Many thanks.

[JoethePro]

It happened - pics to prove it!