Posts: 261
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2005
My ultrafine Spyderco came flat without the need to flatten. However, after two tries with Amazon I settled for a banana shaped medium stone with a dish in the middle of about 1/32 or more. Got a coarse DMT Dia-Sharp to flatten. After about an hour made some progress but the diamond does not have much of a bite anymore. First half hour I was doing by frequent water sprays, then I remembered doing it under running water. So, at this point I feel I destroyed a brand new diamond plate and the stone is not flat yet.
What did I do wrong and what can I do to flatten the stone?
Posts: 3,878
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2009
Welcome to the world of Spyderco stones. It is a ton of work to flatten that stone and I think that 1/32 is a lot of flattening to do.
I would probably contact Spyderco and have them replace it. I thought they were guaranteed to arrive flat. I have no doubt that it would dispense with a Dia-Sharp pretty quickly. I think a Dia-Flat might work, but I used an Atoma 140 to flatten the medium and fine Spyderco stones. By the time I got to the Ultrafine, I did one side and threw in the towel on the other side. I really only got them for carving gouges, so absolute flatness didn't matter.
Maybe others will chime in, but I thought I read something about the flattening process altering the effective grit-equivalent of the stone. I know the Spyderco stones are different that typical stones in that they don't rely on grit size, but on the hardness of the binder to determine how aggressive a stone is. I don't know that I understand how that works, but just recall that the process of flattening the surface with a diamond plate may make the stones less aggressive.
Steve
Posts: 7,011
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
I flattened both a Medium and an Ultra Fine (both 2x8) using first a Coarse and then a Fine Easy-lap diamond stones. Both the Spydercos had a very slight hollow (the corresponding side would have a ramp). I seem to recall it taking about 15 minutes per stone. There is no point in doing both sides - the stones remain flat, so you will only use one side.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Posts: 10,657
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2004
If I bought a new fly rod and the reel seat was off and the reel wouldn't line up with the guides ........ If the G string on my new guitar buzzed on the fifth fret.....if my new Hondas front end shimmied...they'd all go back. Why would you bust a gut flattening a new stone? 1/32d goes back.
Posts: 7,011
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
I've never heard of anyone purchasing a Spyderco that was flat enough to go straight from the box. They all require some tuning to be ready for plane or chisel blades. I believe that the main users are knife sharpeners. I wonder if it is the manufacturing method that causes some "bending" of the stone when it is fired in the kiln? All appear to come this way, some more than others. My hands on experience with the stones is about 18 months. I remain very happy with them, keeping in mind that the reason for including there use was to reduce upkeep time. Regards From Perth Derek reference: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTec...SetUp.html
Posts: 261
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2005
I was expecting to do the flattening work based on reviews on Amazon but I had hoped I would not have to sacrifice a diamond stone and not even get done. It feels like throwing good money after the bad but I ordered a 140 grit Atoma to see if I can finish the job.
Amazon reviews suggest that when people contact Spyderco they end up getting the answer of "this is within spec". So, based on that I am not going to bother pursuing that path. I feel lucky that the ultrafine stone came perfectly flat on one side without needing any work.
Posts: 3,878
Threads: 0
Joined: Jun 2009
I had to flatten some waterstones this weeekend, so I thought I would check the flatness of my Spyderco stones. I tend to use pencil scribbles to check flatness and the waterstones flatten in a few seconds with the stone in one hand and the Atpma 140 in the other. With the Spyderco stones, which have already been flattened, all I had to do was remove pencil marks and it was much harder. I ended up putting the Spyderco stones down on a stone holder so that I could use two hands on the Atoma. Did get them done and it wasn't horrible, but it demonstrated how much harder the Spyderco stones are. The medium was the quickest and the ultrafine the hardest, which makes sense based on how (I think) that they're made - with the strength of the binder somehow controlling how aggressively the stones cut.
Reading Derek's post, I also tried to switch between the Atoma 140 and EZE-Lap 150 (which I usually just use on steel) to flatten the Spyderco stones. I'm sure the EZE-Lap worked, but it stuck more than the Atoma. That makes sense because of the way the Atoma diamond clusters have space between them. I wonder if the big Dia-Flat would work the best, but that's a lot of money to spend on something that's going to get abused by a Sypderco.
I still wonder whether flattening the Spyderco stones alters the way they cut. I recall reading that it does, but don't remember where or why.
Good luck with the flattening. Just one tip, especially is you have the larger size ultrafine. If you're laying them down when you flatten so that you can hold the diamond plate with two hands, make sure the Spyderco is well supported along its length. I used one of those stone holders with the movable rubber pad in the center. I noticed that if that pad was off to one side, the stone felt like it was flexing in the center. The 2 x 8 stones are 1/2" thick, but the 3 x 8 stone is only 1/4" thick and definitely feels like it has some flex.
Would be interesting in knowing your thoughts on the Atoma 140. I think it's great and prefer it to the 400. Works faster and less sticky. I know it's probably wasting waterstone material, but think it's worth the savings in time and effort.
Steve
Posts: 12,299
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2006
I have Spyderco medium, fine and ultra-fine, all 2" X 8", in plastic cases. I used a DMT extra coarse diamond encrusted plate to flatten, with less the 10 - 15 minutes expended on each. I will say the Spyderco's did a pretty good job of wearing the DMT!
The more I use the Spyderco's, the more I like them, particularly, if I add a few drops of water on the surface. Of the three, I view the medium as one of the best stones available (in fact I ordered a second one-4" X 1-7/8", just to keep close at hand for other sharpening tasks). I also free hand sharpen, so the sizes work well for me. Back to the medium, the way it works for me is similar to a Washita natural oilstone, with similar cutting action and fineness of finish, but without the mess of an oilstone.
But, I don't view the bit of prep work needed as any thing short of what I would do for any stone.
Posts: 4,226
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2007
After reading all this, flattening a waterstone seems like it might be less work. Especially if it only takes 35 seconds to do this task. 
Hail St. Roy, Full of Grace, The Schwarz is with thee.
Blessed art thou among woodworkers, and blessed is the fruit of thy saw, dovetails.
Holy St. Roy, Master of Chisels, pray for us sharpeners now, and at the hour of planing.
Amen.
$300 is a lot of Money!
giant Cypress: Japanese tool blog
Posts: 7,011
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Perth, Australia
Wilbur Pan said:
After reading all this, flattening a waterstone seems like it might be less work.
Especially if it only takes 35 seconds to do this task.
Yes Wilbur, but the Spyderco does this once, while a waterstone has to go through this each time it is used ... 35" + 35" + 35" + 35" +35" + 35" + 35" + 35" + .....................................  Regards from Perth Derek
|
