Hi All - I'm constructing an oak ply pedestal stand for my local church - details HERE - I've added the top and bottom w/ 12" square oak ply - will wrap around solid oak w/ dados + router profiles - considering finishing options - I have home-made garnet shellac (un-waxed), Zinsser's rattle-can shellac, two General gel stains (shown below), and water-borne Poly (preference this time of the year to avoid fumes in my basement) - came up w/ a number of finishing regimens and presented the ply oak boards shown below to the church committee - we've decided that the 'American Oak' stain is the best color choice.
So, now I'm considering looking at the finish results: 1) Do I need a shellac sealer coat or can the oak stain be simply applied to the bare wood; and 2) Once the stain is applied and allowed to dry (72 hrs recommended by the General website for a water-borne poly) should I used the spray shellac first as a sealer or simply apply the poly? I like 'simple' w/ finishing and feel that an initial shellac spray as a sealer coat followed by one coat of gel stain and then 2-3 coats of waterborne poly should work fine? Any comments or other thoughts? Thanks. Dave
.
(01-24-2018, 08:33 PM)giradman Wrote: Hi All - I'm constructing an oak ply pedestal stand for my local church - details HERE - I've added the top and bottom w/ 12" square oak ply - will wrap around solid oak w/ dados + router profiles - considering finishing options - I have home-made garnet shellac (un-waxed), Zinsser's rattle-can shellac, two General gel stains (shown below), and water-borne Poly (preference this time of the year to avoid fumes in my basement) - came up w/ a number of finishing regimens and presented the ply oak boards shown below to the church committee - we've decided that the 'American Oak' stain is the best color choice.
So, now I'm considering looking at the finish results: 1) Do I need a shellac sealer coat or can the oak stain be simply applied to the bare wood; and 2) Once the stain is applied and allowed to dry (72 hrs recommended by the General website for a water-borne poly) should I used the spray shellac first as a sealer or simply apply the poly? I like 'simple' w/ finishing and feel that an initial shellac spray as a sealer coat followed by one coat of gel stain and then 2-3 coats of waterborne poly should work fine? Any comments or other thoughts? Thanks. Dave
.
If you want to get the same look as the specimen you need to follow the same recipe. If you eliminate the sealer and apply the stain onto bare wood it will end up darker. You can apply most WB topcoats over OB stain as long as the stain is really dry. GF may recommend 72 hours, but that's only a guideline; it could take longer if the humidity is high and/or the temp. is low. Make a test panel with the sealer and stain, mask off two or three sections, and then apply the topcoat to those sections after 2 days, 3 days, 4 days, or whatever interval you want. Then do a scratch/tape test after 3 days to determine the minimum dry time for the stain. If non of them gives an acceptable scratch/tape test, then you'll have to choose a different stain or topcoat, or put a sealer over the stain for the topcoat to bond to. I've used Sealcoat shellac over OB stain that has dried only 1 or 2 days w/o problems with the subsequent WB topcoat.
(01-24-2018, 09:21 PM)jteneyck Wrote: If you want to get the same look as the specimen you need to follow the same recipe. If you eliminate the sealer and apply the stain onto bare wood it will end up darker. You can apply most WB topcoats over OB stain as long as the stain is really dry. GF may recommend 72 hours, but that's only a guideline; it could take longer if the humidity is high and/or the temp. is low. Make a test panel with the sealer and stain, mask off two or three sections, and then apply the topcoat to those sections after 2 days, 3 days, 4 days, or whatever interval you want. Then do a scratch/tape test after 3 days to determine the minimum dry time for the stain. If non of them gives an acceptable scratch/tape test, then you'll have to choose a different stain or topcoat, or put a sealer over the stain for the topcoat to bond to. I've used Sealcoat shellac over OB stain that has dried only 1 or 2 days w/o problems with the subsequent WB topcoat.
John
Thanks John for your reply - my basement shop has heat and is in the mid-60ºF and between 30%-40% humidity - what I would like to do is spray shellac first (to lessen the color of the stain), then apply the Am. Oak stain, wait 2-3 days and do another shellac coat followed by 2-3 coats of the water-borne poly - believe that would work for me - Dave
(01-24-2018, 10:55 PM)giradman Wrote: Thanks John for your reply - my basement shop has heat and is in the mid-60ºF and between 30%-40% humidity - what I would like to do is spray shellac first (to lessen the color of the stain), then apply the Am. Oak stain, wait 2-3 days and do another shellac coat followed by 2-3 coats of the water-borne poly - believe that would work for me - Dave
When I used waterbased paint directly on wood it raised the grain. I would use the shellac as a base coat to prevent that. I don't think the stain will prevent the grain raising. I might be wrong.
No animals were injured or killed in the production of this post.
(01-25-2018, 10:41 AM)jteneyck Wrote: That has always worked well for me, Dave.
John
(01-26-2018, 09:27 AM)Cooler Wrote: When I used waterbased paint directly on wood it raised the grain. I would use the shellac as a base coat to prevent that. I don't think the stain will prevent the grain raising. I might be wrong.
Thanks Guys for your comments - I'm still working on the project - adding solid oak mitered molding around the base & top pieces and need to make and add some more molding - then onto sanding and finishing - I'll likely use shellac on the bare wood and also over the stain - would not expect much grain raising w/ the water-borne finish - Dave
(01-25-2018, 10:41 AM)jteneyck Wrote: That has always worked well for me, Dave.
John
Another 'new' question - just starting to finish my 'chalice stand' project - applying the Zinsser shellac first (cold outside but the stuff dries so fast and do not want those fumes in my basement) - the stain & polys will not be a problem inside. BUT, the church committee likes the darker 'Candellite' stain shown above, PLUS a flat finish (there are a LOT of lights shining on the stage and a shiny surface on the pedestal might be distracting?).
Now when I use multiple coats of poly, I like gloss below and then semi-gloss or satin on top to have a clearer see-through to the grain - I know I could put the semi-gloss poly on last and then rub to satin - but I just ordered the product below w/ a matte finish - my question is whether I can apply the Varathane over the Minwax poly after some minor scuffing of the surface of the latter? My assumption is that there would not be a problem; of course, I could test on scraps from the project. Thanks again for any comments. Dave
(01-29-2018, 12:11 PM)giradman Wrote: Another 'new' question - just starting to finish my 'chalice stand' project - applying the Zinsser shellac first (cold outside but the stuff dries so fast and do not want those fumes in my basement) - the stain & polys will not be a problem inside. BUT, the church committee likes the darker 'Candellite' stain shown above, PLUS a flat finish (there are a LOT of lights shining on the stage and a shiny surface on the pedestal might be distracting?).
Now when I use multiple coats of poly, I like gloss below and then semi-gloss or satin on top to have a clearer see-through to the grain - I know I could put the semi-gloss poly on last and then rub to satin - but I just ordered the product below w/ a matte finish - my question is whether I can apply the Varathane over the Minwax poly after some minor scuffing of the surface of the latter? My assumption is that there would not be a problem; of course, I could test on scraps from the project. Thanks again for any comments. Dave
I think you answered your inquiry. It probably won't be a problem but the only way to know for sure is to make a test sample on some scrap.
Also, recognize that matte will have zero gloss. I would definitely try it on scrap to make sure that's the look you are after.
(01-29-2018, 01:02 PM)jteneyck Wrote: I think you answered your inquiry. It probably won't be a problem but the only way to know for sure is to make a test sample on some scrap.
Also, recognize that matte will have zero gloss. I would definitely try it on scrap to make sure that's the look you are after.
John
Thanks again John - I've already 'masked off' another test scrap from the oak ply - will follow my regimens and see the effect - Dave
(01-25-2018, 10:41 AM)jteneyck Wrote: That has always worked well for me, Dave.
John
Hi Guys - I did some testing (shown below) and decided to use the top third finishing schedule - the 'matte' was just sheen-less, so went w/ 2 final coats of WB poly satin - just added a new post to my other thread on the project HERE - the specific finishing regimen is described there along w/ a couple pics of the chalice stand - please take a look. Dave
Here are some supplies and tools we find essential in our everyday work around the shop. We may receive a commission from sales referred by our links; however, we have carefully selected these products for their usefulness and quality.
