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(12-22-2021, 08:43 PM)JosephP Wrote: not permitted/inspected, so no.
If I were convinced that would be beneficial, sure.
Probably not an issue. They started requiring them when there were reported incidents of shade tree mechanics plugging extension cords in those outlets to work on their cars, or run their leaf blowers. Some just plugged in their ext. cords and left them dangle for easy access. And extension cords are notorious for being damaged and repaired, then damaged and maybe repaired, and damaged...
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Looks like it will be a 2 pole breaker for the doors...didn't find the handle tie for Siemens panel (main panel) locally.
Sub panel is Square D QO - need to get handle tie for the 14/3 I already ran for the the 2 circuits for emergency exit light and "porch" light at man door, so glad I asked and got the answer for the openers!
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12-23-2021, 08:00 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2021, 08:23 AM by TDKPE.)
(12-22-2021, 10:45 PM)JosephP Wrote: Looks like it will be a 2 pole breaker for the doors...didn't find the handle tie for Siemens panel (main panel) locally.
Sub panel is Square D QO - need to get handle tie for the 14/3 I already ran for the the 2 circuits for emergency exit light and "porch" light at man door, so glad I asked and got the answer for the openers!
You can use two single-pole breakers and add the handle tie when you get it. I put a short sleeve of NM over the two adjacent hot leads at the breakers, marked “MWBC” on one side, and “shared neutral” on the other, just in case some unqualified person doesn’t get why a handle tie is there, or wants to relocate one of the two breakers.* You’re the qualified person, so it’s unlikely you’ll lift the neutral with one of the two hots still energized, at least until you get the handle tie installed. And remember that the use of a handle tie for two otherwise independent loads on a MWBC (see my post above about shared straps and 240V circuits) is a recent requirement, though I agree with the reasoning behind it.
https://www.zoro.com/siemens-handle-tie-...0301008005
HD has them, too.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-Hand.../202315482
Or just use a two-pole breaker. Problem solved.
The QO series use a little rolling pin type handle tie, and they should be hanging on a hook at the BORG.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-QO-.../100165878
*I've corrected several panels where a helpful person moved a conductor of a MWBC to another location in the panel, but on the same pole as the other one, thereby causing the neutral to carry the sum of the current of both hots rather than the difference.
Tom
“This place smells like that odd combination of flop sweat, hopelessness, aaaand feet"
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(12-23-2021, 08:00 AM)TDKPE Wrote: ....I put a short sleeve of NM over the two adjacent hot leads at the breakers, marked “MWBC” on one side, and “shared neutral” on the other.....
I like it!
(12-23-2021, 08:00 AM)TDKPE Wrote: ......
You’re the qualified person.....
I appreciate the advice and vote of confidence! If nothing else the handle tie will make me think twice if I forget what happened/why 10 years from now!
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One more question:
14/3 from panel to 1st box with receptacle. Red wire stays there, blacks tied together headed to second receptacle. Question is about the whites...is it OK if I just run both of those through the 1st receptacle or do I need to do a pigtail to receptacle?
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(12-31-2021, 08:34 PM)JosephP Wrote: One more question:
14/3 from panel to 1st box with receptacle. Red wire stays there, blacks tied together headed to second receptacle. Question is about the whites...is it OK if I just run both of those through the 1st receptacle or do I need to do a pigtail to receptacle?
US NEC 300.13(B) Device Removal.
In multiwire branch circuits, the continuity of a grounded conductor shall not depend on device connections such as lampholders, receptacles, and so forth, where the removal of such devices would interrupt the continuity.
The code commentary on that notes:
Grounded conductors (neutrals) of multiwire branch circuits supplying receptacles, lampholders, or other such devices are not permitted to depend on terminal connections for continuity between devices.
In other words no you can't run through it you should pigtail it. An open neutral on a multiwire circuit places the loads in series across 240v with the voltages being divided inverse to the loads. Roly
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(12-31-2021, 11:20 PM)Roly Wrote: .... no you can't run through it you should pigtail it. An open neutral on a multiwire circuit places the loads in series across 240v with the voltages being divided inverse to the loads. Roly
Thanks!
As I was doing the second one, it didn't quite seem "right". I'll go back up and fix those.
