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I have been asked to refinish the table tops for the local Starbucks. The factory finish has gotten soft and scratches easily.
I re-finished the previous generation of table tops for this same restaurant and the table tops stood up fine for the balance of the 10 year life cycle (about 9 years).
The current generation has a heavy stain/paint/gel coat. I cannot tell exactly what it is. And it is applied over what appears to be oak or ash with a very open grain.
I sanded down to the wood on the previous tops (Baltic birch), and then brushed on one coat of SealCoat plus three coats of oil based poly. I am inclined to do the same as the track record for this finish in this application is excellent.
However removing all the old finish on these tables will probably clog up a good amount of sandpaper and I am not at all certain that I can match the color closely.
Question: What about a light sanding and then SealCoat then the three coats of Poly? It would solve two issues: Reduce the amount of sanding required--only a light scuffing would be done. And it guarantees that there is a good color match.
But the underlying finish is getting soft, probably from the repeated washings with a Windex-like product.
So do I need to go with the sanding down the the bare wood (but probably not to the open pores in the wood)? The top veneer may not be thick enough to do that. Or do I go with the light scuff and top coat the entire mess?
Obviously the topcoat option is less work. I am concerned about the soft finish. But maybe allowing it to dry out for a few days might solve that issue.
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Why not use stripper?
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
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If you leave any amount of decayed finish on there will be trouble to come. I'd:
1. Use a stripper like
Klean-Strip GKS3 KS-3 Premium Stripper .
2. Scuff sand if any old finish remains then apply some more stripper.
3. Use a few 1# coats of shellac with transtint to get the color.
4. Topcoat with GF EnduroVar very chemical resistant, durable; but has a slight yellow color.
That should hold for ~7 years.
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I'll pile on that stripping it is your best option. It will remove the old, damaged finish w/o hurting the underlying veneer. Then a light sanding will be all that's needed before applying the new finish. You can either stain it or use a dye toner as JR1 suggested to get the color you need. If you prefer to stain it but don't want to fool around getting the color perfect take an existing table and a stripped one to SW and have them color match a stain for you (on the back).
John
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fredhargis said:
Why not use stripper?
I could. It would be easier than sanding, but not as easy as scuff + SealCoat + poly.
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You seem to want to take the easy way out and want us to ok it. If the old finish is damaged by chemical cleaner to the point of being soft, drying out a few days will not help. You know the correct way is to strip it, and i use the klean strip ks-3 premium, then apply the finish you want. You take their money you owe it to do a proper job, not a job that may or may not work. They want the table redone because the old finish is failing. Where it is proper to apply a new finish over a soft failing finish. Oh that's right it is easier and faster for you. Don't take the job if doing good work is to much effort. Sanding an old finish off is doing things the hard way. Use the stripper and a good amount of the color should remain. A stripper leaves behind the patina of a piece where sanding destroys it.
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jteneyck said:
I'll pile on that stripping it is your best option. It will remove the old, damaged finish w/o hurting the underlying veneer. Then a light sanding will be all that's needed before applying the new finish. You can either stain it or use a dye toner as JR1 suggested to get the color you need. If you prefer to stain it but don't want to fool around getting the color perfect take an existing table and a stripped one to SW and have them color match a stain for you (on the back).
John
I see that short cuts will not make the grade. The last time some students carved their initials in the surface so sanding down was the only resort.
I'm not sure that it is even a stain. It could be a paint of some sort. But I like the idea of bringing the table top to Sherwin-Williams for a color match. The finish is completely opaque and a nearly black maroon color. None of the stains I've tried come remotely near this opacity and color.
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If the finish is opaque it was likely not a stain/topcoat combo; more likely it was done with a colored lacquer. So definitely take one to SW or BM and ask them what your options are.
John
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Sanding is a poor, slow way to remove a finish. The most effective and fastest is to use a chemical paint stripper. Use one that contains methylene chloride. It will do the fastest and most complete removal of the previous finish(s).
If you plan to stain the tabel tops sanding will not remove the finish that has soaked down in the grain of the wood. The will cause uneven penetration of subsequent finishes you apply.
Be sure to read and follow the directions on the can.
Stay away from strippers the claim to be "safe". They works very slowly and require multiple applications to remove the prior finish.
Howie.........
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Howard Acheson said:
Sanding is a poor, slow way to remove a finish. The most effective and fastest is to use a chemical paint stripper. Use one that contains methylene chloride. It will do the fastest and most complete removal of the previous finish(s).
If you plan to stain the tabel tops sanding will not remove the finish that has soaked down in the grain of the wood. The will cause uneven penetration of subsequent finishes you apply.
Be sure to read and follow the directions on the can.
Stay away from strippers the claim to be "safe". They works very slowly and require multiple applications to remove the prior finish.
My last experience with strippers was most unpleasant. I stripped 57 years of paint off my two garage doors. The biggest problem was that some of the work was overhead--long gloves proved insufficient protection.
I am quoting time and materials, so I am not concerned about how long it takes me except as it affects the client's cost.
I do believe that it is a sprayed lacquer of some sort and clearly inadequate for the task. All Starbucks were converting to this new table style, but I just saw a new one with a gray-ish finish that was top coated (the top coat looks pretty milky, but it seems to be holding up better). They are also using some steel topped tables but I don't have a clue what they used for a finish. I will decline that work if they ask me.
Thanks for the help. The key will be getting a satisfactory color. I'm inclined to paint then topcoat as the poly seems to last a good bit longer.
I have a coffee cup holder that I made 20 + years ago in the office. It gets used daily. Oil based poly finish. When I wipe the finish down it still looks new. So I know it will stand up. And the slow drying allows brushed finishes to look nearly perfect.
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