8000 grit Waterstone = Amazing

[jteneyck]

I borrowed Ken Vick's 8000 grit Norton waterstone to sharpen my plane blade. What an improvement over my 3000 or 4000 grit King stone. My plane shoots miters much easier and the edges are noticeably smoother. I definitely will be ordering an 8000 grit stone.

John

[AHill]

Isn't it nice to discover "sharp"? If you stop honing without stropping, 8000 grit is, IMO, the lowest grit I'd stop at. If you strop, then you can stop honing at 3000-4000 grit, then strop with the green stuff. There is one benefit from an 8000 grit stone that you can't get from stropping, and that would be flattening the backside of the iron/chisel/blade. Kind of hard to get that flattening with a strop.

[jteneyck]

I have a follow up question for the plane iron pros. I have honed and polished the back of the blade until the last 1/8 - 1/4" is nearly mirror bright. I can't see any defects but, then again, my eyes aren't that good up close. After I sharpen the beveled side and remove the tiny little burr on the back with the 8000 stone it looks perfect, but almost immediately after I start using it I get a couple of little streaks in my planed surface, just like you would see if you nicked your your jointer knives on something. I still can't see a defect on the edge of the blade, but I can sort of convince myself that I can feel them with my thumb nail. This isn't just happening with the 8000 grit; same thing happened with the 3000/4000 stone.

Any ideas what's happening and how to eliminate it? Thanks.

John

[Gregory of Sherwood Forest]

To the OP; I give classes on sharpening in my small shop, and allow the students to try three common stone alternatives:

1) 1000 and 4000, strop
2) 1000 and 6000, strop
3) 4000 and 8000, strop

As long as there aren't any nicks in the edge, the overwhelming consensus for sharpening is option 3. If there's a nick, then going to a 1000 grip stone makes sense, though.

Jteneyck, do the streaks occur along the same point of the blade every time? Have you checked the sole of the plane for any nicks or burrs? Sometimes, the mouth of the plane itself can get nicked and it'll cause the same problem.

.

[DaveParkis]

Hi John, I'd suggest checking the edge under a magnifier with a light if you have one. My eyes aren't what they used to be and I find the light really helps. If you can look at the edge under a magnifier and you don't see and nicks, I'd check the mouth/sole of the plane like Greg suggested. Its real easy for a small piece of grit to embed itself. Of course, if you are coming to Albany any time soon, you're more than welcome to swing by and we'll see what we can figure out.

[Wilbur Pan]

jteneyck said:

---

I have a follow up question for the plane iron pros. I have honed and polished the back of the blade until the last 1/8 - 1/4" is nearly mirror bright. I can't see any defects but, then again, my eyes aren't that good up close. After I sharpen the beveled side and remove the tiny little burr on the back with the 8000 stone it looks perfect, but almost immediately after I start using it I get a couple of little streaks in my planed surface, just like you would see if you nicked your your jointer knives on something. I still can't see a defect on the edge of the blade, but I can sort of convince myself that I can feel them with my thumb nail. This isn't just happening with the 8000 grit; same thing happened with the 3000/4000 stone.

Any ideas what's happening and how to eliminate it? Thanks.

John

---

Whats happening is that you have really really really tiny nicks on your blade. My bet is what you’re feeling with your thumbnail is real.

The way to take care of it is to drop back to your first sharpening step, (1000 grit waterstone, for example) and work the blade for a while. Then go back up through your 4000 and 8000 grit waterstones.

You may want to get yourself a magnifying glass to check out the edge of your blade. I’ll also bet that you’ll be able to see the micro-nicks that way.

People make fun of woodworkers who check their edges with a magnifying glass as being overly anal about sharpening. I say that there’s no quicker or more direct way of seeing what’s happening with your edge than by looking at it directly.

If you go to eBay and do a search for “20x led loupe”, you’ll see all kinds of listings for magnifying glasses. Some are handheld, some you wear like eyeglasses. I have a handheld one, and it was invaluable in helping me figure out what was going on with my sharpening when I got started. I just checked eBay, and you can get a handheld 20x loupe with a built in LED light shipped to your door for $6.00.

[AHill]

I wonder if you really removed your wire burr enough prior to using the blade. If there's enough of the burr still present on the blade, it can break off and cause that nick you can feel.

Nicks need to be eliminated by reestablishing the bevel. I recommend you purchase an inexpensive hand loupe or some other form of magnification to see how large your nick is. Depending on the size of the nick, you may need to start back at 1000 grit to hone back the bevel to eliminate the nick, or, if large enough, take the iron to a grinder and grind it back. Once the nick is gone, you have to progress back through the grits on the bevel side. Don't forget to swipe the back side a few times after you are finished with each grit. Also, if it was me, I'd hone that back side about 1/2"-3/4" from the edge. I am wondering if your 1/8-1/4" really allowed you to hold the blade flat against the stone without rocking it. That's probably not the source of your nick, but it helps to keep things flat and level on the back side.

[cputnam]

I agree with the folks' advice above. Get a loupe (or other magnification) and check your edge for micro nicks. Also do check to see if the streak occurs in the same place.

Lee Valley sells an inexpensive loupe set along with the green crayon you are going to need.

Same advice works for chisels, too.

[jteneyck]

Thanks everyone. I looked at the edge as best I could with a little handheld magnifying lens and could see some nicks. So I went back to square one and flattened the back of the blade on my 300 grit, 800, and 1200 grit stones. I did that to the last 2" or so of the blade, making sure I kept the blade on the stone. When I was done, I could no defects on the back and it was flat and uniform in sheen.

I moved to the bevel and went from 800 to 1200, 3000, and 8000 grit, removing the wire edge after each grit. When I was done it was as good as I can do at present, and I could neither see nor feel any defects.

OK, I carefully put it back in the plane and got it adjusted to take thin flat shavings on a the edge of a 1" walnut board. I moved to the shooting board and the plane took off about 6 of the smoothest shavings imaginable, and the edge of the 45° miter was flat and smooth with no streaks. I put the mating piece on the shooting board and after a couple of passes I started seeing streaks again. The joint still fits perfectly, but at this point that's not the point; I'd like to know why this is happening. Looking at the plane blade it appears as if there are some small nicks in the edge again.

????

John

[cputnam]

At what angle are you honing? Whose iron is it? I'm going to guess that the temper has gone from the edge if it fails that quickly. If I am correct, then you can either grind back some distance and hope there is good steel or get a replacement iron.

It's a # 6 plane right? I'm going to be buying a Veritas iron & CB for one of my sixes and would be glad to send the iron. Can't do it 'til next week 'cuz I'm locked here at the house until the flooring gets done. Lemme know.