Working with my son on a kitchen table for him and his wife and she picked out a MinWax Ebony stain. The table is made of pine, was sanded to 120 grit and the stain was put on Saturday. It sat overnight, and today, we put a 1# coat of blonde shellac on it (made it Thursday night), and then we’ve wiped P&L#38 Dull varnish (50-50 mix with mineral spirits). The stain is pulling out a little and you can see it on the blue paper towels we’re using to wipe it on. We wiped on four coats (which should equal one brushed on coat) and are still getting it on the paper towels. Before we put on the fourth coat, we rubbed it our hand and with a paper towel and no bleed-thru unless we hit an area that was still a little wet.
Hindsight says that maybe I should have used a heavier coat of shellac but we did this just the other week with a different MinWax staind and didn’t have an issue like this.
The photos are right after we put on the fourth coat so we’re wondering somewhat if we’re putting too heavy of a coat.
Any thoughts on where we went wrong? Is part of it due to the fact that it’s such a dark stain?
Trying to decide if we’ll have continue to have issue with bleed-through as we put on additional coats (we were planning on doing at least three or four more sets of coats).
I've never seen MW ebony stain that dark. Did you wipe it off? Doesn't look like it and that would be a problem with anything afterwards. Your wiping varnish would not pull up the stain if it was dry, even w/o the shellac.
If you didn't wipe the stain off your best option now is to chemically strip it off and start over. If you really want it that black I would consider gel stain or paint. The stain you are using won't get you there. Sw's BAC wiping stain would likely work, too, if you can spray, but otherwise is not an option.
(10-01-2017, 09:57 PM)jteneyck Wrote: I've never seen MW ebony stain that dark. Did you wipe it off? Doesn't look like it and that would be a problem with anything afterwards. Your wiping varnish would not pull up the stain if it was dry, even w/o the shellac.
If you didn't wipe the stain off your best option now is to chemically strip it off and start over. If you really want it that black I would consider gel stain or paint. The stain you are using won't get you there. Sw's BAC wiping stain would likely work, too, if you can spray, but otherwise is not an option.
John
I agree. Your stain was either not completely wiped off, or dry/cured.
If you want "black" use india ink.
Id sand it down, use india ink, then shellac and rub your topcoats.
Once Favre hangs it up though, it years of cellar dwelling for the Pack. (Geoff 12-18-07)
We didn't wipe it off so that was the start of the problem. He did a sample board where he wiped a portion and let the other sit. His better half liked the unwiped side and since nothing came up when he rubbed his hand over it, he felt we were good to go (and no, we didn't put any varnish on it...had we done that, we wouldn't be in this situation). He had followed a similar process on an earlier project (not nearly as dark of a stain) and didn't have this issue so he felt like we were in good shape.
Yes, Kleanstrip Premium is what I use most often. It will remove most anything, although it likely won't get all the stain out of the pores. But that shouldn't matter as long as you get all the binder off/out of the wood so the new stain can penetrate. Sanding again after stripping should get the wood ready to accept the new stain.
You can buy Speedball India ink at office supply stores or Amazon. It works great for coloring wood black. Just apply it with a brush or sponge. And unlike stains you don't wipe it off, just let it dry overnight before applying the oil based finish of your choice. Do not use shellac or waterborne finishes unless you spray them as they are likely to pull up the ink. Could be wrong on that; someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.
The next time you use wood stain be sure to wipe it off.
(10-02-2017, 07:54 AM)jteneyck Wrote: You can buy Speedball India ink at office supply stores or Amazon. It works great for coloring wood black. Just apply it with a brush or sponge. And unlike stains you don't wipe it off, just let it dry overnight before applying the oil based finish of your choice. Do not use shellac or waterborne finishes unless you spray them as they are likely to pull up the ink. Could be wrong on that; someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.
Correct again. I had luck wiping ANYTHING directly over it. But those handy dandy spray cans of shellac are great here. Id spray a coat, sand with 320, then another coat. That SHOULD be enough....the first topcoat you might get a little...but with light sanding between topcoats you can build them up with ease.
Once Favre hangs it up though, it years of cellar dwelling for the Pack. (Geoff 12-18-07)
(10-02-2017, 07:54 AM)jteneyck Wrote: Yes, Kleanstrip Premium is what I use most often. It will remove most anything, although it likely won't get all the stain out of the pores. But that shouldn't matter as long as you get all the binder off/out of the wood so the new stain can penetrate. Sanding again after stripping should get the wood ready to accept the new stain.
You can buy Speedball India ink at office supply stores or Amazon. It works great for coloring wood black. Just apply it with a brush or sponge. And unlike stains you don't wipe it off, just let it dry overnight before applying the oil based finish of your choice. Do not use shellac or waterborne finishes unless you spray them as they are likely to pull up the ink. Could be wrong on that; someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.
The next time you use wood stain be sure to wipe it off.
John
The local hobby store (Micheal's) only sells some sort of imitation India ink. Office stores only seem to carry these in small bottles. I think Amazon.com is going to be your best source.
I got a very black finish with General Finishes imitation milk paint. It brushes on with no brush strokes or drips leaving a perfect finish that is jet black. I top coated it with clear for the semi-gloss finish. The satin clear has so much suspended mica in it that it turned the black to gray, so if it is too shiny, then go over it with some fine steel wool afterwards. The grain showed through (red oak) but it was clearly a painted finish and not a stain. Very nice finish though. And easy.
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Thanks, I'll look for the ink on Amazon and also see if there is any available locally.
We ended up not stripping it, instead, we added a little more varnish to our mix so it more varnish than mineral spirits. We had significantly less black on the shop towels using that method. It's tougher to spread the mixture evenly and we've put three coats of that on the table. It's going to be a kitchen table so we wanted to build the finish up a little more than what I normally would.
jteneyck and packerguy were 100% right on their solution and I was 100% wrong.
We ended up stripping the table and starting over again from scratch. We ended up using an ebony oil-based stain from Varathane. And we made sure that we wiped it off. After that was a 2# cut of super blonde and then we put five sets of wiping varnish (using this as our guide). Attached are pictures of the stripped table and then the table with the new stain on it. Put a little metal on the table that he's going to paint black and the last picture is the table in their house.
I will say this...working with something this dark was an eye-opener for me...every little defect really seemed to pop out and scream at me.
(11-11-2017, 02:21 PM)goredsus Wrote: Wanted to bring some closure to this...
jteneyck and packerguy were 100% right on their solution and I was 100% wrong.
We ended up stripping the table and starting over again from scratch. We ended up using an ebony oil-based stain from Varathane. And we made sure that we wiped it off. After that was a 2# cut of super blonde and then we put five sets of wiping varnish (using this as our guide). Attached are pictures of the stripped table and then the table with the new stain on it. Put a little metal on the table that he's going to paint black and the last picture is the table in their house.
I will say this...working with something this dark was an eye-opener for me...every little defect really seemed to pop out and scream at me.
Thanks again for the help and suggestions.
All your efforts were well rewarded. The table looks great now.
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After that was a 2# cut of super blonde and then we put five sets of wiping varnish (using