Saw Sharpening Musings

[Admiral]

I've been working on my saw sharpening for the last couple of years. It's a skill, an acquired skill, that takes practice. I've taken advantage of the shared knowledge posted here by Marv, Darryl, Issac and others (many others, just cannot remember everyone, I'm getting old), and for that I'm grateful. For those just learning, search the old posts, there's pearls there for the taking.

I've recently gotten the "eureka" moment, where everything falls together, to the point that I'm resharpening all the saws in my till, as every saw I sharpen cuts like a hot knife thru butter. I'll tell you, it feels good, and my bride keeps wondering why I'm showing her each saw I sharpen; she thinks I'm nuts.

So, like I said, search the posts here, read Pete Taran's "Primer", buy some good files, get a good saw set, buy or make a saw vice (Blacky's Boy made a good one) and go to work.

My observations. A filing guide is worth the price. LV has one, so does Issac at Blackburn Tools (his has a level bubble, which can help). Wood jigs work, but the commercial ones are more convenient.

Clean your file often, use a stiff non metal brush, this makes the files last longer.

Be consistent in filing, pay attention to your guide, what ever it may be, this is important.

Don't over set the teeth, hard to explain, but you'll figure it out.

When rehabbing old saws, you may have to shape the teeth in two or three filings, I know, it takes a long time, but until you get a consistent tooth shape across the full saw, any sharpening will be second rate and you'll wish you shaped one more time. I've shaped three times on several occasions, but once it's done resharpenings are so much easier.

Last but not least, don't exert downward pressure on the file, only lateral when shaping, and neutral when sharpening.

That's all I got.

[Axehandle]

So when one advocates free hand sharpening of chisels and plane irons and then gets advice to use a guide when sharpening saws.......

[Daniel S]

I agree with you about making sure teeth are right before sharpening, I've made that mistake too many times. I've also learned a lot from the members here and am glad that everyone shares their hard won knowledge.

[Admiral]

Ironic, eh?

But there is a lot more geometry going on with saw teeth, and you're not talking about one edge, but getting 200 edges to the same geometry so they all work together. A whole 'nother ball of wax. Believe me, it ain't easy freehand.

Years ago, I used to frequent a flea market just north of Monroe NC on Rt 74, and there was an old guy, must have been in his 70s or even 80s, and this is 15 years ago, who sold saws, and he'd sit there every week sharpening saws freehand. I bought a few from him, and they cut well, and week after week I'd watch the guy, he had amazing muscle memory. Them guys are gone, long gone.

[enjuneer]

Axehandle said:

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So when one advocates free hand sharpening of chisels and plane irons and then gets advice to use a guide when sharpening saws.......

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I use an LV filing guide myself, but I do not stare at it. Instead, I see, or more correctly, sense the guide bar in the periphery of my vision as I am filing. After enough practice, muscle memory coupled with this little bit of visual input leads to consistency in angle and spacing.

I agree with Admiral. It is a great feeling when a saw you've just sharpened whisks through the board with little effort. It makes you want to say "I did this!"

[MarvW]

Thanks for sharing Rich,

Quote:

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Don't over set the teeth, hard to explain, but you'll figure it out.

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You experienced saw filers already know all this stuff. This is more for those of you who are thinking about learning to file or have already begun and are just getting started.

As a general rule with all handsaws.... use just enough set to prevent the saw from being tight in the kerf. The saw should slide freely with no binding, but not loose or wobbly.

For backsaws, you'll probably be using it on dry hardwoods. But even pine or soft Maple and similar woods, you only need about .003 set on each side. If you use a saw for wet green woods, more set is needed to prevent too much drag. On handsaws, I start with no more than .005 each side. If a test cut indicates it needs more set, it is much easier to add set than removing excess set.

I have tried lots of different saw sets. The best one, in my opinion is the Stanley 42X. This saw set does not have numbers on the anvil that are very misleading. If you use a saw set that has numbers, only use them for reference. They do not correlate to the number of points per inch. If you do use the numbers, you will end up with more set than you need. Trust me on that.

You don't have to "side joint" the teeth, but it is better if you do. Some filers will use a file for side jointing, but it's easy to remove too much from the sides of the teeth up near the top of the points. I use a flat slip stone, the kind you would use for sharpening carving chisels for example. These stones are orange in color and have a high percentage of silica, making them extra hard. The main reason for side jointing is for two things. One is for reducing burrs left from filing along with getting all the points even on both sides. The other is for correcting a saw that wanders off to one side or the other. When you side joint, it only requires one or two swipes with even light pressure the full length of the tooth edge. When you do it, lay the saw on a flat surface and push the slip stone from toe to heel.

If your saw wanders off to one side instead of cutting in a straight line and if you are side jointing heavily to get it to cut straight, there is something wrong with the filing of the teeth. When this is the case, you might fix the problem by resetting the teeth, being very careful to use the same pressure on the handles of the saw set on each tooth and make sure both the blade and the saw set is free of dirt and debris. If resetting doesn't fix it, you'll need to file the teeth again.

If you over-set the teeth, some people will try to bend the teeth in the opposite direction. This might work ok on small teeth such as we see on backsaws, but with handsaws with bigger teeth, you'll risk breaking some teeth, depending on how much you bend them. The safest method to correct over-setting is to file the excess out. I know it's very time consuming, but breaking teeth is a real bummer. Some older saws will not be hardened consistently and will break even when setting the teeth a small amount.

Keep in mind, you can spend a lot of time carefully filing each tooth so they are all exactly the same size and shape and then ruin all that good filing when setting the teeth. Setting the teeth, even though it is a seemingly a simple step in the process, it is just as important as the filing stages.

This is what a Stanley 42X looks like...

You can usually find the saw set on eBay. Or, often times you'll find them for sale on Swap & Sell here on WN. A fair price for a good one is about $45.

When you first pick up an old saw or even a new one, sight down the side of the blade from the top edge with it in the light just right and look at how much the teeth protrude out from the side of the blade. In a short time you'll get so you can see at a glance what too much set looks like or what .003 looks like. Also, notice if one side is more than the other. This will give you a clue as to how much you'll need to file the teeth when reshaping old teeth.

[Scoony]

Over setting was a bit problem for me. I was thinking that the saw set needed to reach a hard stop. If your squeezing hard to get to that stop you will overset the teeth. I have the eclispe style sawsets from TFWW and they will leave a indented mark in the teeth when you squeeze too hard. I learned to squeeze softly.

[hbmcc]

Thanks Admiral and Marv for sharing. These tips are golden nuggets of information and too easy to lose. But it is these very posts that keep the forum fresh and a pleasure to follow.

Admiral's satisfaction with personal achievement in this task is encouragement for me to delve into processes that make the completed work successful. The results depend on well maintained tools.

[MarvW]

What you have is an Eclipse style saw set. But it isn't the real thing. The real Eclipse used to be made in England. The one you have is a knock-off and is poorly made. The only good thing about it, in my opinion is, it's cheap. I bought one once and all it did was break teeth. Mine is the blue one. The main problem with it is, the angle on the anvil is about 23 degrees while the angle on the 42X is right at 15 degrees. That's a huge difference when it comes to how much the tooth gets bent. What's happening with yours is, when you squeeze the handles until you hit bottom, you have bent the tooth too much at too much of an angle, hence you are softly setting the teeth to compensate for that incorrect angle. It is pretty much impossible to consistently set teeth that way. Get yourself a 42X and you'll have no problems. The anvil on the one you have isn't consistently hardened from one saw set to the next. After using it for awhile, the anvil will deform to some extent. The real Eclipse has the same angle on the anvil, but at least it's hardened properly, but there's still the issue with the angle of 23*.

Now if you aren't as anal as I am about these kind of things, not having all the teeth exactly set the same, and if you aren't concerned about obtaining exactly .003 amount of set for each tooth, as an example, your saw set will work perfectly fine.

[Admiral]

I get it why everyone likes the 42x, and I have one, but I find that the "regular" 42 works better for me on 8pt teeth and larger, and I regularly reach for the 42 for those larger toothed saws. Not saying a 42x won't work properly, or should be preferred, just that I 've had more success with the 42. This, as everything, may change.

Also, on the knockoff eclipse, a while back someone had a batch of new strikers made to retrofit poorly hardened ones. I wonder if the same could not be done for both the striker and anvil . . . as those bronze UK made eclipse sets are very, very hard to find.