When is Bad too BAD to salvage?

[hbmcc]

I have to ask this because I see some pretty scroungy tools, especially planes, discussed [disgust] here. I don't see pristine, fixable, examples of mild rust at the junk store.

Admittedly, I am not attracted to metal rehab. I may have a can of grinding paste, and I did rebuild a car engine, which probably confirmed my interest. I know for a fact that there is more to fixing a hand plane than a sheet of sandpaper. It is working environment, parts and repair tools, and basic know how that seems to influence an evolution of the silk purse from a sow's ear.

For the newbie: What do they need to rehab a Stanley No. 4, with all the flaws of final USA production, bent iron, bad frog fitting, warped sole, plastic tote and knob, and life buried in the backyard?

[EricU]

only you can decide. for me, the cost of a bench plane puts it below what I am willing to spend time on unless it's nearly perfect. I did recently rehab a rusty Stanley 45, which was probably silly, but it did provide some entertainment. I come from a long line of farmers. I would go into my favorite uncle's shop and marvel at the rust. So some of these rustbucket planes remind me of that.

Paul Sellers has a video about rehabbing a plane. There was a thread about it on here

[JimReed@Tallahassee]

A plane like the one you describe is a great learning experience. Better to learn on something like that than a really nice old timer. I even did a lengthy cleanup on a Stanley Handyman in my early learning days. Of course, it worked lousy clean, just like it did when new. But I learned a lot.

Plastic handles work great, they just look ugly. Bent blades can be straightened with a vise. Warped soles can be problematic.

[hbmcc]

EricU said:

---

SNIP

Paul Sellers has a video about rehabbing a plane. There was a thread about it on here

---

I saw it. In my OP, I almost slammed Sellers for the user plane I think he tossed into the mud a week before that video. He failed to point out any of the problems that a newbie will likely confront. He just cleaned a dirty plane.

On parts, to expand my lament, I got a decent No. 6 online with a bad cap iron (wrong model). A few months later there was a charity sell and I got a greasy box of junk. One of the planes had a cap that fit the 6 better. I picked through the grease then donated the rest. I think rehabbing entails more than just casual interest in collecting.

[Admiral]

A warped sole is a good reason to pass on any plane, unless you've got access to a grinder like Tablesaw Tom, and even then, it takes a guy with Tom's skill to do it right; but even if you fix the sole, the mating among the sole and frog in late model US manufactured planes left a lot to be desired, and it is my experience that the last Type worth buying was Type 19, and even then you have to give it the once over and know what you are looking at. Remember, a plane is nothing more than a jig to hold an edge tool, and if it doesn't hold it just right, its worthless for fine work.

As you describe this example, it would be an exercise of frustration in getting it to perform properly, there are many worthy planes out there with good bones that you should spend your time on. If you can get it working, I'd put it in the classification of a "loaner" plane to neighbors and relatives who what to plane down a door, not to be used for serious work (my father's Handyman, which I keep for sentimental reasons, is just such a plane). Or, you could make a rough work scrub out of it by cambering the iron, then the sole and/or frog doesn't matter very much.

I don't mind the plastic tote and knob, actually.

[C. in Indy]

It's all a matter of context. Real good Baileys do have a price that is a potential barrier, even if a small barrier.

My 1st plane restore was a "Corsair" from the antique store. I liked it when I was done.
Prior to becoming a "classic Bailey plane snob", my next plane was a Stanley Handyman. The Handyman, with all its flaws, was a step up from the Corsair and I liked it very much at that time. In fact, I put new (wood) handles on it, and used it to recycle some 1968-date-code pinewood trash into a Secretary. Pictures here for enjoyment or gratuitous thread-wandering....

[Bibliophile 13]

If you went with me to a flea market or antique shop, I could pick up the handplanes one by one and tell you exactly why I would or wouldn't buy them based on make, model, and condition. I probably have an elaborate, internal flowchart that I follow, but I've never bothered to write it out. But here's a summary of what I would be looking for vs. what I would consider deal-breakers.

First, you have to learn to see through grime and surface rust. It takes practice, but you learn to pick out the outline of a well-made plane (usually old Stanleys, but also Sargents, Keen Kutters, and others). I can pick these out pretty quickly. However, there is a lot of third-rate junk out there, mostly hardware store brands and cheaply-made crap. I pass on anything with plastic handles and/or stamped (not cast) frog.

For the right price, I will gladly deal with the following:
- Dirt
- Surface rust
- Chipped iron
- Broken/damaged wooden tote
- Bent lateral adjuster lever

These, however, are deal-breakers:
- Bent iron
- Warped or cracked sole
- Poorly fitted frog
- Damaged screws/threads
- Missing/broken hardware (screws, chipbreaker, yoke etc.)

That's not to say that you can't fix this stuff if you're determined enough. I'm just saying that there's seldom any reason to. Tools in better condition can be found pretty easily.

[JimBelair]

Steve pretty well nailed my criteria.

[Steve N]

+1

[hbmcc]

Wish we could pin and hold Tips. I know I talked this subject several times. Steve, I love your list!

One thing that totally confounds me is the frog bedding to the sole. It's probably why that can/tube of grinding paste is in the garage. If the bed is not correct when I get the tool, the whole thing is junk to me. Those things need a proper machine tool (mill) to fix.

I may follow Paul when he seeds the subject of his next tool clean-up, but know that life is better down in the S&S. You handymen are deeply appreciated.