SawStop Jobsite saw & Bosch Reaxx head-to-head - real human-finger-test comparison!

[Huxleywood]

Even SawStop admits you can injure yourself if you do not follow basic safety protocol.  Lawyereze for sure, but it's the same reason seat belts won't save your life if you decide to drive off a cliff.  You don't necessarily design for the worst case, because the worst case doesn't happen very often.  I'm not convinced that slapping a hand down at high speed onto a moving blade is the most frequent cause of table saw injuries.

I agree though I don't think there is any empirical evidence available, or likely to be, to show the actual speed range of accidental flesh to blade contacts.  For me at this point is merely a curiosity, both saws have shown they work, I would like to see a controlled test of the worst case scenario merely to see which one is faster.

[Ray Newman]

when I read that test, this was the first thing came to my mind: "was alcohol involved?"

[EricU]

I think the most likely way that I would cut my hand on a tablesaw is to reach over/past the blade and misjudge.  That's why I just wait for the blade to stop after making a cut.  Kinda wish they had a brake, but I guess that's a feature of a much more expensive saw.  I have heard of other scenarios that don't really come to mind right now.

[AHill]

I agree though I don't think there is any empirical evidence available, or likely to be, to show the actual speed range of accidental flesh to blade contacts.  For me at this point is merely a curiosity, both saws have shown they work, I would like to see a controlled test of the worst case scenario merely to see which one is faster.

Which one is faster is kind of a moot point right now, since the judge's preliminary ruling was that Bosch violated two of the key patents SawStop owns.  It's not likely Bosch will be able to continue to sell their Reaxx saws with the same mechanisms.

[Huxleywood]

Which one is faster is kind of a moot point right now, since the judge's preliminary ruling was that Bosch violated two of the key patents SawStop owns.  It's not likely Bosch will be able to continue to sell their Reaxx saws with the same mechanisms.

It is not remotely moot to me, as I said for me it is a matter of curiosity so as long as I am interested in the outcome it is not moot.  

While the wind certainly is blowing SS way at the moment there will come a time when you will be able to buy either a Reaxx or similar saw from Bosch and likely from many others as well.  It is important to note that this isn't just a Hail Mary by Bosch when the patents expire Bosch already has the R&D done.

[Alan S]

Has anyone done a test using a human hand analog at a controlled speed that is determined to be near the fastest a human can slap down on a surface? 

There was a magazine test some years ago where they swung a hotdog on the end of a stick rapidly down onto the spinning blade of a Sawstop.  There was a noticeable slice taken out of the side of the hotdog, not the bottom where it hit the blade.  It turned out the hotdog was cut where it hit the riving knife, but the blade got out of the way faster than the hotdog came down.

From the way they work, and the report in the article that started this thread, it seems clear that the Sawstop protects you from the blade faster than does the Bosch.  It's the need for that extra bit of speed that takes out the blade.  But the more important question is whether the Bosch is fast enough.  If you would not be injured, getting the blade out of the way even faster isn't important.  But if there is a significant fraction of accidents where the severity of injury would be significantly reduced by the faster speed, then it is quite important.

[EricU]

even with this somewhat flawed test, it does seem like the SS is better, but the Bosch is good enough

[Huxleywood]

There was a magazine test some years ago where they swung a hotdog on the end of a stick rapidly down onto the spinning blade of a Sawstop.  There was a noticeable slice taken out of the side of the hotdog, not the bottom where it hit the blade.  It turned out the hotdog was cut where it hit the riving knife, but the blade got out of the way faster than the hotdog came down.

From the way they work, and the report in the article that started this thread, it seems clear that the Sawstop protects you from the blade faster than does the Bosch.  It's the need for that extra bit of speed that takes out the blade.  But the more important question is whether the Bosch is fast enough.  If you would not be injured, getting the blade out of the way even faster isn't important.  But if there is a significant fraction of accidents where the severity of injury would be significantly reduced by the faster speed, then it is quite important.

The problem with the article and test vis a vis determining which is faster is the speed of the hand isn't controlled which makes the data essentially useless.  I would just be interested in a controlled test.

[Alan S]

There is something seriously wrong with the edit function.  My post above does not appear as I wrote it, or as it appears when I try to edit it.  I tried copying ind pasting from the text I wrote, and that also gets changed.

[Alan S]

Maybe this will work:

As typed:

There is something wrong with the edit function.  My post above did not look as it appears in this thread, and when I edit it, it does not look like that either.  I copy that here.

The AHill quote should be "Has anyone done a test using a human hand analog at a controlled speed that is determined to be near the fastest a human can slap down on a surface?"

My answer was:
"There was a magazine test some years ago where they swung a hotdog on the end of a stick rapidly down onto the spinning blade of a Sawstop.  There was a noticeable slice taken out of the side of the hotdog, not the bottom where it hit the blade.  It turned out the hotdog was cut where it hit the riving knife, but the blade got out of the way faster than the hotdog came down.

From the way they work, and the report in the article that started this thread, it seems clear that the Sawstop protects you from the blade faster than does the Bosch.  It's the need for that extra bit of speed that takes out the blade.  But the more important question is whether the Bosch is fast enough.  If you would not be injured, getting the blade out of the way even faster isn't important.  But if there is a significant fraction of accidents where the severity of injury would be significantly reduced by the faster speed, then it is quite important."

Somehow these two parts got merged, with part of it cut out.

Added here:
I don't know that there is any published info available on how much faster the Sawstop responds.

As it shows up:

There is something wrong with the edit fudge rapidly down onto the spinning blade of a Sawstop.  There was a noticeable slice taken out of the side of the hotdog, not the bottom where it hit the blade.  It turned out the hotdog was cut where it hit the riving knife, but the blade got out of the way faster than the hotdog came down.

From the way they work, and the report in the article that started this thread, it seems clear that the Sawstop protects you from the blade faster than does the Bosch.  It's the need for that extra bit of speed that takes out the blade.  But the more important question is whether the Bosch is fast enough.  If you would not be injured, getting the blade out of the way even faster isn't important.  But if there is a significant fraction of accidents where the severity of injury would be significantly reduced by the faster speed, then it is quite important."

Somehow these two parts got merged, with part of it cut out.

Added here:
I don't know that there is any published info available on how much faster the Sawstop responds.