BLO vs Arm-R-Seal vs WB clear

[Bope]

I am trying to figure out what finish to put on my table top. I did some tests with different dies, shellac and BLO. The wife is leaning toward the BLO with no die. This got me thinking if I should just use Arm-R-Seal or do BLO with shellac and a WB clear. I have never used Arm-R-Seal before. What is the color difference between BLO and Arm-R-Seal on lighter colored woods? I don't want the finish to be too amber. Garnet shellac was a little too amber on the lighter burl.

My brushing technique is so poor my first idea is to spray a WB clear. If I go this route I would probably do BLO-shellac, garnet or blonde-WB clear. The shellac is mostly for a barrier between teh BLO and WB clear. Didn't John's finish testing find the GF High Performance Polyurethane to be about equal to Arm-R-Seal?

[fredhargis]

BLO will continue to darken over time, as will any oil based finish. But in my opinion, BLO isn't a finish anyway, more of a coloring agent. It will (IMHO) be very poor for the use a table top will see. If Arm-R-Seal is one of your considerations you will probably find it has about the same effect n the top as BLO (appearance wise). But that would have to be tested and see how it looks to you. If you want a color fast finish, the waterbornes will provide that. Some of them have a tint to mimic oil based finishes, and that may be a better solution for you. GF's HP does not have any tint as it turns out, but their Endro Var does.

[jteneyck]

ARS is lighter than BLO.  Personally, I don't think BLO does anything good except on walnut.  ARS is relatively easy to apply on large surfaces by diluting it about 25% with mineral spirits and applying it with a foam brush.  Build up 3 coats or so, scuff sanding with 320 grit in between and sand any ridges until they are flush with the rest.  Then apply 2 or 3 wiped on coats using a paper towel, lambs wool pad like used on floors, microfiber cloth, or whatever applicator you like best. 

For reference, here's what ARS looks like on curly maple.  As you can see, it's very light.






If you want to use a WB topcoat, EnduroVar is the most durable one I've used.  Don't use GF's High Performance Poly on a table top.  It isn't all that chemically durable - ammonia containing cleaners will easily damage it, and hot stuff will stick to it.  EnduroVar shrugs off both.  For the ultimate protection, use a conversion varnish. 

John

[Bope]

John, I am glad I asked I thought the HP Poly was the better WB clear. I do have some Endurovar on the shelf so I can try that. Since it has a little color I will see what it looks like on the burl. This is going to be a living room table not a dining table so ultimate protection of a conversion varnish may not be needed. 

I want to do something to give the burl some pop that is why I was trying BLO and shellac. I made a trunk for my daughter with quilted maple and cheery. I finished that with garnet shellac and GF 450. It looks nice but I think the orange of the garnet shellac will be too much for a large table top. The burl isn't quit as white as the quilted maple but it is light. I do have blonde shellac so I can greatly reduce the orange color if the shellac will help make the grain more interesting. I will post a picture of the completed top tonight so people can see what I am trying to finish.

[Kansas City Fireslayer]

I used Endurovar on a walnut farm style table I finished up about 4 months ago.  I was a first time user and I was always a bit skeptical of WB clear coats in high wear applications until I used a commercial WB poly on my hardwood floors (Loba).  I have been very impressed with the Endurovar and it will now replace even my favorite finish (Precat lacquer) in some applications.  JohnT's reviews and good words about Endurovar was a big deciding factor.  

Even though it's only been 4 months my family uses this table quite a bit.  I haven't noticed any damage other a vase that fell over and put a small ding in the wood and an area where my son's computer bag zipper head created a blemish.  For the most part, the small dings it has picked up would of happened regardless of the finish, IMO.  However, there aren't light surface scratches in it from laundry baskets or the plastic totes my daughter keeps her art supplies in.  It has also had some spills of typical fluids that haven't touched it either.  The 43" solid top hasn't shown any problems with the low humidity shrinking.  I used seal coat shellac as a sealer.  Endurovar laid down beautifully for me from a 4 stage HVLP.  Dead clear and very hard once cured.  No stink, fast dry, easy clean up.  I don't have the patience for slow dry finishes anymore.

[jteneyck]

If you want maximum pop either go with Arm-R-Seal or dewaxed shellac + WB topcoat.  As this is a living room table, you may want to consider GF's Enduro Clear Poly instead of EnduroVar.  It's dead clear, as clear as HP Poly, and nearly as durable as EnduroVar.  It's spray only, however, but it sprays as easily as HP Poly. 

John

[Bope]

I think I will do some more testing with shellac and WB clear. I have experience spraying shellac and WB but have never used ARS and I have never been happy with my wiping or brushing technique. I find it interesting that on the GF site they list HP poly, and enduro clear as high durability and Edurovar at medium. I wonder if the difference is lab testing vs real world testing.

Here are pictures of the completed top with boarder and a pic of the whole table. The stand is just primed. Once I finish the top I will look into the color for the base.

[jteneyck]

Not sure what GF meant, but if I had to guess I'd say they were referring to resistance to physical abrasion, not chemical durability.  Enduro Clear Poly had better abrasion resistance is some testing that I did than anything else I tested, including Arm-R-Seal.  HP Poly feels about as hard to me, and EnduroVar a little less so.  Chemical durability wise, however, HP Poly is a distant 4th compared to the other three products, with EnduroVar and ARS tied for 1st. 

That table top looks great.  Spraying it with shellac and WB topcoat should be pretty straight forward and look great.

John

[Bope]

Here is what GF lists for durability of these products. From this it looks like EnduroVar is significantly harder but also wears faster under abrasive conditions. Not sure what the Chemical test is. Is that 105 different chemicals they tested against or is it some measure of resistance to a specific chemical. I think in this case what John did is more real world testing with specific cleaners, food and a hot mug. If the finish resists some chemical I am never going to encounter but is very susceptible to common food and drink items then I don't want it even if it gets great test rating. In the end I think the biggest difference I might notice is the color additive in the EnduroVar. I will do some more tests to see if I want a water clear topcoat or the slightly tinted EnduroVar. Also Clear poly is about $30/gal cheaper than EnduroVar.

EduroVar
Durability (Highest, High, Medium, Low): Medium
Hardness (Koeing): 123
Wear (Taber): 95.6 mg loss
Water (5 max): 3
Chemical (105 max): 84

Enduro Clear Poly
Durability (Highest, High, Medium, Low): High
Hardness (Koeing): 67
Wear (Taber): 35.7 mg loss
Water (5 max): 4
Chemical (105 max): 97

HP Poly
Durability (Highest, High, Medium, Low): High
Hardness (Koeing): 59
Wear (Taber): 34.4 mg loss
Water (5 max): 4
Chemical (105 max): 93

[Kansas City Fireslayer]

Bope,

I stand corrected.  I used Enduro clear poly and not Endurovar.  A mistake in my post above.  Here's a pic of the table I built.  It's a satin finish and I am very pleased with their satin sheen.  The sheen will die down a bit as the finish cures out, IMO.  It seemed a bit shinier the first few days, if not week, after I shot it.  I did use a low concentration of Transtint dye dark walnut before the dewaxed seal coat shellac and then Enduro clear satin poly. I clear coated the painted base with GF's HP poly because it was readily available and I needed to keep moving. The clear coat over the BM Advance WB enamel was to seal in the rubbed through areas that were down to bare wood. FWIW, I think the HP poly did make the BM enamel a bit "smoother" to the touch. It could be my imagination though.....BTW, your table looks awesome. The finish is going to make it sing....


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