Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news

[Admiral]

I would imagine that once the safety issue was resolved and implemented bringing the flaw to light they kinda set themselves up for the recall

Not really, subsequent remedial measures to correct a condition, be it a broken sidewalk, or a table saw defect, is inadmissible as evidence of negligence in a products liability lawsuit. CPSC recalls are a different can of worms that I'm not smart about. Lots of rules around this stuff, it gets complicated fast.

[AHill]

I suspect this is not the last we'll hear about SawStop or its inventors (Gass is only one guy on the patents) using the courts to their advantage.  I don't know if there's any further recourse for Bosch.  I suspect this decision will effectively cut off any attempts by other large companies to build a similar mousetrap.  For sure, Bosch will patiently await the day the patents run out and then put their saw on the market, much the same way Fein's Multi-master tool patent expired and now everyone seems to be selling an oscillating cutting tool.   The SS patents are very broad.  They cited at least 6 patents violated (can't remember exactly) in their petition.  Only 2 were ruled to be violated. But those 2 were pretty basic to the technology.  (Flesh sensing and blade brake/retraction)

SS, IMO, will continue to pursue the courts to impose their technology on all saw makers.  At least in the current administration, I rather doubt the regulatory agencies will be sympathetic to adding more safety regs to already well-established industrial technology (table saws in general).

I also suspect SS will sue Bosch for damages, since it's been established Bosch violated their patents.

[Tapper]

I work in the tech industry, and frankly, the US is a global leader, mostly ahead of the curve.  And all technology companies jealously guard and protect their patent portfolio, which provides significant licensing revenue allowing them to recapture their significant R&D expenditures.  For every successful R&D project that results in a successful licensing program, there are a dozen that never pan out.  One in ten (and it might be worse than that) tech startups are successful and the rest eventually fail.  Tech is a research driven business, and expensive research to boot.

Using your logic, you shouldn't buy or use a cellphone with a Qualcomm chip in it, Gass is a piker compared to their tactics, or any Apple product, they are downright abusive with their patent and licensing policies, or any Oracle software, a company notorious for their heavy handed business practices, nor Microsoft software as they are almost as bad as Oracle.  You may not like it, but the truth is that SS is playing the game every other innovator does, and when competitors infringe, they have to be made to pay the price, in this case, lack of access to one of the largest markets in the world.  Either Bosch forgoes the US market, or licenses the SS patents.  Pretty simple economic choice for them.  Next comes the patent infringement lawsuit in Europe, where I am sure SS has been granted numerous patents.

The fact he is a lawyer has nothing to do with anything, and most likely since he is a patent lawyer he has an engineering/science background, which is a prerequisite for taking the patent bar.  So I guess you only hate lawyers with engineering degrees, not all engineers, eh?  Most people "hate" lawyers, until they really need one . . . .

Bingo - well said! 
  Thought this thread would bring out all the SS haters, yet again. Amazing how some folks just don't seem to have a grasp of patent law. 
 Just as many people hate attorneys until they need one, let's hope those who can afford a SS and won't buy one because of their hate of Steve Gass never need the unique safety device only SS offers. I have a friend who wished he hadn't.

Doug
SS PCS Pilot

P.S. Gass also has a PhD in physics, FWIW.

[Admiral]

Allan:  I asked one of our patent litigators at work about next steps for Bosch, he said there is a Presidential review period (no President has ever reversed a decision), then Bosch may appeal to the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, sitting in DC, which is likely, but a "stay" (i.e., suspension of the remedy pending review) of the non-import order by the Federal Circuit is highly doubtful.

Postscript:  Was reading the paper this morning and noticed that it was none other than Bosch who colluded with VW to write the software code that detected emissions testing protocols and then reinstated the engine's emissions controls to defeat the testing.  This deception extended over a decade.  They recently settled a fraud case for $327 Million.  Viewed against that conduct, what's a little patent infringement, and what does that say for Bosch's ethics, eh?  Sort of dwarfs anything SS may have done.

[Patsfan]

didn't mean to throw a match on this one...

I have read my share of these.

[fixtureman]

What if Bosch sold the saws with a non active unit until the patent is off then offered the active cartridge for it here but in other countries sell it with the active one.

[JGrout]

Bingo - well said! 
  Thought this thread would bring out all the SS haters, yet again. Amazing how some folks just don't seem to have a grasp of patent law. 
 Just as many people hate attorneys until they need one, let's hope those who can afford a SS and won't buy one because of their hate of Steve Gass never need the unique safety device only SS offers. I have a friend who wished he hadn't.

Doug
SS PCS Pilot

P.S. Gass also has a PhD in physics, FWIW.

And I have 10 fingers still in spite of myself; guess personal responsibility means nothing anymore 

HTH HAND h8r

[Admiral]

What if Bosch sold the saws with a non active unit until the patent is off then offered the active cartridge for it here but in other countries sell it with the active one.

So long as they eliminate the infringing component(s), then they are not infringing, so its ok.  But Bosch has other job-site saws they are selling already, so don't know if that makes all that much sense, cause without the flesh sensing technology, what's the point?

[Greg Jones]

Bosch could also decide to license the technology from SS and continue to sell the Reaxx in the US. Might make morse sense financially than to just abandon the US market until the patent runs out.

[fixtureman]

If they continued to sell them they would be ready for when the patent is over.  Also you could order a cartridge from another country and use it to modify it.